From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Looking for universal completion with simple UI Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <778b7522-e7b5-4ee7-89fa-10548516d79c@googlegroups.com> <0a07ca5d-d79f-42d8-b74c-f8e7b8fdfae0@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1412786994 3126 80.91.229.3 (8 Oct 2014 16:49:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:49:54 +0000 (UTC) To: dont.spam.earl@gmail.com, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 08 18:49:47 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XbuQs-000471-CV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 18:49:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37435 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbuQs-0003gQ-0c for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:49:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43843) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbuQZ-0003fT-Qi for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:49:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbuQS-0002lO-6E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:49:27 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:48327) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XbuQR-0002lH-Vz for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2014 12:49:20 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s98GnGMp010857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:49:17 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s98GnFJ5004029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:49:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s98GnFUO027384; Wed, 8 Oct 2014 16:49:15 GMT In-Reply-To: <0a07ca5d-d79f-42d8-b74c-f8e7b8fdfae0@googlegroups.com> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:100342 Archived-At: > Drew - The one unresolved issue for me is simplicity: the > documentation for Icicles spans dozens of pages on emacswiki.org. Earl - The doc starts with a 14-sentence "README for NON-Readers": =20 http://www.emacswiki.org/Icicles_-_Nutshell_View#READMEforNonReaders After the first 7 sentences, the 8th is "You now know enough to use Icicles." And the 9th is "If you have doc-phobia or are easily overwhelmed by explanations, then read no more - just try it!" I stand by that. The rest of that page is an overview of Icicles, with examples. If you are up to reading more than 14 sentences then that nutshell view is the next level of help. You can stop there too. You do not need to read lots of doc to use Icicles. The fact that there *is* lots of doc does not mean that you need to read it all. > Even after using it for a few months, I'm still surprised and > turned-off by some of the defaults. Too vague to be helpful, but OK, your preferences differ from the default behavior. Nothing wrong with that. And you have been using it for a few months but you still don't feel comfortable with it. That's OK. People are different. Thanks for trying it. Sorry it doesn't fit your needs. Icicles is not for everyone. (Nor is Emacs, for that matter.) And those who do use Icicles use it in very different ways and have different preferences. (Likewise, Emacs.) > ... a simpler interface and smoother learning curve. Please address particular issues or suggestions *specifically*, using `M-x icicle-send-bug-report'. It is trivial for a user to remove all top-level Icicles key bindings from the equation, by just setting option `icicle-top-level-key-bindings' to nil. If you do that, and if you never use `S-TAB' to complete, you never repeat `TAB' to cycle among completion candidates, and you never bother with any of the special minibuffer keys (which are anyway not bound in vanilla Emacs or are otherwise not useful in the minibuffer), then the behavior you get is pretty close to that of vanilla Emacs. And you can toggle `icy-mode' to return to vanilla Emacs anytime. No one is required to use Icicles or find it helpful or useful. Emacs is much bigger than Icicles. Happy hacking.