From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: uzibalqa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : menu-item uses no dot period before item-property-list in examples Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 15:43:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8270"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: uzibalqa via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 17 17:44:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qLQOY-0001wl-Hv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 17:44:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLQOE-00050A-SB; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLQOD-0004zm-7h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:43:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-40130.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.130]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLQO9-0000Bi-Cj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2023 11:43:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1689608630; x=1689867830; bh=mt9dnq/KTUXxfPp8Q5clRV9YjOiO/DfQdwAvLcMD/aU=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=jmfxtSSdkHmttUqbv9Ic6XldGqNNlRXLXUfcRHixmmopbClXRgA8NAttVHSdbPGVj toywWVDLMPWlesK5QA18TNjSpn4NWJncIEFUQmtkgZxDgJkBnqWNxGIVOsELsSh6ce W5QLNTEMWWY+9anl440vAJVMZxX4a5tiEJTYUltKU/gY6aHdt4bSFyzH/aVvgJWB6b n0mBeed8x1u7hjKzEaSkbeaUTTljQjgqh6f0aEVsCUHP/fWYD1LfWJlxeY7R57OoZK RQgU2Dt2Md/l2fU6nGcZsU9uGjy5H4WdodwASWd9ETFO+sji9IsVE51y8xcDZhAZAN CWm1ka4ClTERQ== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 52887082:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.130; envelope-from=uzibalqa@proton.me; helo=mail-40130.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144300 Archived-At: Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Tuesday, July 18th, 2023 at 3:10 AM, Drew Adams = wrote: > > > > Have read about > > > > (menu-item item-name real-binding . item-property-list) > > > > but when things actually get implemented there exist no dot period > > > > before 'item-property-list'. > > > >=20 > > > > (define-key global-map > > > > [menu-bar mcp-topm daphne-subm entry-sweep] > > > > '(menu-item "Entry Sweep" gilgamesh-entry-sweep > > > > :help "Entry Sweep")) > > >=20 > > > Yes, there is. And you've been told before > > > that (a . (b c)) is the same as (a b c). > > >=20 > > > For simplicity, Lisp printing removes the > > > dot and parens: . (...). This is standard > > > Lisp syntax convenience: we write (a b c) > > > instead of (a . (b . (c . nil))). That's > > > all there is to it. > >=20 > > So why bother users in the manual why that is never actually used. > > (menu-item item-name real-binding item-property-list) >=20 >=20 > I hope you meant this, which is not the same thing: >=20 > (menu-item item-name real-binding > . item-property-list) >=20 > item-property-list is not an element of the > overall list. It's "spliced" into that list, > as its tail. >=20 > What "bother" are you referring to? > item-property-list is a list. That's all. >=20 > Lisp users like/need? to understand dotted > list notation, and its abbreviated read and > print notation, i.e., the fact that >=20 > (a b c) =3D (a . (b . (c . nil))) >=20 > If you intend to use Elisp, then you should > intend to read about and understand its read > and print syntax. And if you use Elisp to > create menus then you should intend to read > and understand a syntax description such as >=20 > (menu-item item-name real-binding > . item-property-list) >=20 > > > And you've asked this before, and you've > > > been pointed to the Elisp doc, which > > > explains all of this in detail, even with > > > diagrams and examples. > > >=20 > > > Please, Ask Emacs. Many people, over many > > > years, have gone to the trouble of writing > > > good, clear help and doc. > >=20 > > That's your assertion. Bothering us with jargon that never gets used is > > just being silly to those who do not have time for nonsense intended on= ly > > for general language interest rather than practicality. >=20 >=20 > What "jargon that never gets used" are you referring to? >=20 > Apparently what you call "bother" is what Emacs > offers as doc to try to help its users. >=20 > Who is bothering whom, with your "Help Me!!!?? > I'm drowning!!!?!!" pleas for help? Do you ever > wonder why people - even very patient people - > give up on you after a while for not trying to > help yourself a bit? >=20 > > The dot should be removed from the documentation > > and have >=20 > ^^^^^^^^ ? >=20 > What dot, where? And have what? Is it possible > for you to see that you just toss half-articulated > demands and pleas over the wall and then expect > help and mind-reading? Actual code implementations using menu-item does not include '.' before 'item-property-list'. (menu-item item-name real-binding . item-property-list) > Maybe try ChatGPT instead? Maybe it would be someone's replicant here ! ;) =20 > > > And you can find the same thing outside of > > > Emacs, in any number of Lisp introductions. > > >=20 > > > Help yourself.