From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jude DaShiell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: When do you prefer windows instead of frames? Was: When do you prefer frames instead of windows? Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:08:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: References: <87k32jhe6x.fsf_-_@vsl28t2g.ww011> <5474CD1B.1070605@arlsoft.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419005372 6045 80.91.229.3 (19 Dec 2014 16:09:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 16:09:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dieter@duenenhof-wilhelm.de, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: MBR Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 19 17:09:25 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y207G-0007C1-Bt for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:09:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59330 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y207F-0000b1-OU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:09:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37781) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y206z-0000at-UF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:09:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y206t-00018g-UT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:09:05 -0500 Original-Received: from shellworld.net ([69.60.117.94]:56188 helo=server1.shellworld.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y206t-00018E-O5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:08:59 -0500 Original-Received: by server1.shellworld.net (Postfix, from userid 1024) id DC5F92294B; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:08:58 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by server1.shellworld.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97412292C; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:08:58 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <5474CD1B.1070605@arlsoft.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Mac OS X 10.x X-Received-From: 69.60.117.94 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:101679 Archived-At: For those of you who find keyboards easier than mice to use have you ever tried using a track bal and if so how do you grade that in comparison to use of the mouse? On Tue, 25 Nov 2014, MBR wrote: > Be very careful with the phrase "use ... as easily as you can use ...". There > are some people out there who consider pointing with the mouse easy. I, on > the other hand find it easier to use the keyboard. The keyboard, along with > Emacs' wide array of cursor positioning commands, gives me the ability to > quickly and easily get to specific precise positions - at least precise based > on character position in a character cell terminal or editor window. > > There are probably other areas where different Emacs users would have > diametrically opposite views on what they consider to be easy. > > Mark Rosenthal > > On 11/25/14 10:46 AM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > > I would ask an opposite question: IF you could use Emacs frames > > > > as easily as you can use Emacs windows, in what scenarios would > > > > you prefer using Emacs windows, and why? > > > For supporting tasks only: Imagine you are starting from a full-screen > > > window and want to see temporarily a variable definition in a second > > > window while still hacking away. The advantage is that window > > > operations, like C-x } enlarge-window-horizontally, > > > delete-other-windows-vertically,... operate simultaneously on all > > > windows. In such situations it seems to me much more convenient to > > > use windows than set it up with frames. > > Again - but what "IF you could use Emacs frames as easily as you > > can use Emacs windows"? That's the question. > > > > Pop up a *Help* frame instead of a *Help* window to show help. Hit > > `C-x 0' to get rid of that frame when you're done. You probably do > > not need to resize the frame (e.g., if the frame is automatically > > fit to the size of just the *Help* text). But if you do, then use > > keys to resize it, just as you would for a window. > Yes, but typing C-x o is something I can do easily because it involves two > fingers on the left hand immediately followed by one finger on the right hand, > without fingers my ever having to leave home position. C-x 5 o, on the other > hand involves my typing two successive characters with my left hand before I > can switch to the right hand for the "o". And, worse than that, "x" is in the > bottom row but "5" is in the top row, which means that even though my fingers' > average position is over home position, they're jumping Saturday as far as > they ever do on vertically. > > All this means that my mental focus on the code I'm writing doesn't get > distracted when I type C-x 0, but when I type C-x 5 o, I have to take some of > my focus away from the code to make sure I don't miss the "5" after the "x". > > > > IOW, think past what you can do with a window (resize, move, control > > where it pops up, etc.) that you think you cannot easily do with a > > frame now. > > > > I certainly agree that if frames are not made as convenient to > > interact with (i.e., the same kinds of operations you use on > > windows) then Emacs windows remain useful. But if Emacs *did* > > support such operations with frames, out of the box,... > > > > > > jude Twitter: @jdashiel