From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Arrow Keys? Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: References: <791jqsF1otu7cU1@mid.individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1244402674 17091 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2009 19:24:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:24:34 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 07 21:24:32 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MDNyn-0003Ur-AM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:24:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44756 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MDNym-0004ST-MZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:24:28 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs Original-Lines: 65 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.102.12.87 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1244394322 6256 127.0.0.1 (7 Jun 2009 17:05:22 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:05:22 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: w40g2000yqd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.102.12.87; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US) AppleWebKit/530.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/2.0.172.30 Safari/530.5, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:169788 comp.emacs:98223 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:24:01 -0400 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:65018 Archived-At: On Jun 7, 9:27 am, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > On Jun 7, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Christian > > Herenz wrote: > >> Chris Gordon-Smith schrieb: > > >>> Hello All > > >>> I have recently started using Emacs on a regular basis. I read in > >>> the > >>> Emacs documentation that it is more efficient to use C-N, C-P etc. > >>> rather > >>> than arrow keys. Is this really true? I'm persisting with it, but > >>> those > >>> arrow keys still seem pretty attractive. > > I've been using emacs for less than a year. I feel comfortable with > python mode, outline mode, dired, org-mode, slime and auctex. And yet, > the stupid f-b-n-p issue is a constant pain. Why, in an editor that's > utilized through habit and muscle memory, are the most primary > navigation keys based on *mnemonic* devices like forward-back-next- > previous? Why is that necessary? I can open files on remote servers, > eval defuns, and relocate sub-trees easier than I can move forward > three words and then move forward another two characters. I'm aware of > solutions like ergo-movement or whatever, but it messes with the whole > arrangement of keys and really isn't viable. Only now, after nearly a > year of use, am I finally getting to the point where it is more > efficient to reach for f-b-n-p than to reach for the arrow keys. > > This is a rant. I have no real point. In the end, it's better to use f- > b-n-p, but good Lord it takes a long time to get here. I guess the ergo-movement you are referring to is =E2=80=A2 Ergoemacs Keybindings http://xahlee.org/emacs/ergonomic_emacs_keybinding.html Maybe give it another try? it is meant to fix this emacs problem. Or tell me what problem you had with you tried to use it. the reason emacs had the keys it had is largely due to historical reasons. In particular, the f b n p are due to the about 20 lisp hackers who already used to that key when emacs just started, according to the oldest emacs user Daniel Weinreb. quote: ... At the time Guy Steele put together the Emacs default key mappings, many people in the target user community (about 20 people at MIT!) were already using these key bindings. It would have been hard to get the new Emacs bindings accepted by the community if they differed for such basic commands... =E2=80=94Daniel Weinreb, 2008-06-01, on comp.emacs newsgroup. See: =E2=80=A2 Why Emacs's Keyboard Shortcuts Are Painful http://xahlee.org/emacs/emacs_kb_shortcuts_pain.html Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84