From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Is Emacs very alive, active and improving? Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 16:37:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87r4ddo4yp.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87d2oww758.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> <87y57kur51.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1377819479 23258 80.91.229.3 (29 Aug 2013 23:37:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:37:59 +0000 (UTC) To: Emanuel Berg , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 30 01:38:00 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VFBmm-0008UO-TJ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Aug 2013 01:37:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46406 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFBmm-0004bg-He for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:37:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39855) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFBmU-0004ae-6M for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFBmL-000242-K0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:37:38 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:21313) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VFBmL-00023x-DO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 19:37:29 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r7TNbRFr004316 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:37:28 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7021.oracle.com (aserz7021.oracle.com [141.146.126.230]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7TNbPvo026902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:37:26 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt109.oracle.com (abhmt109.oracle.com [141.146.116.61]) by aserz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r7TNbPuw017118; Thu, 29 Aug 2013 23:37:25 GMT In-Reply-To: <87y57kur51.fsf@nl106-137-194.student.uu.se> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:93162 Archived-At: > You always tell me I should report all problems as bugs. No, I do *not* tell you or anyone else that. Use your *judgment*. If *you* think something is not as it could be & should be in Emacs, then *you* can think about whether or not *you* might want to make an enhancement request or report a bug. That's the point. I only point out to people that `report-emacs-bug' is one way (a good way; a recommended and expected way) to communicate change requests to Emacs Dev. > I don't think that is a good attitude, I rather examine how to fix > the problem myself. So you don't need to repeat that all the time. Good for you. You are a big boy now; it's clear. But I am not trying to help only you, Emanuel. I have found that reminding readers of this list of the possibility of reporting to Emacs Dev can be helpful - for Emacs and for Emacs users generally. IOW, for me it is not just about getting you an answer to your little problem. If what I say happens to help you too, so much the better. > Only if I find really obvious bugs, I'll report them, and > you don't need to tell me to. I don't need to read or reply to your emails at all. I reply to messages when I think what I have to say might help someone. It's not about you. > I stopped go on and on about the mouse, remember? So relax.=20 > But I appreciate the other info you provided. Or, put it like > this: Thanks for the -- help. You're welcome. Now, because Emacs is a self-documenting editor, you can also *just ask Emacs*. That's the point in pointing people to the doc instead of just providing an answer: learn to fish. Emacs is a fertile fishing ground. My recommendation - for anyone - is to ask Emacs first (e.g., check doc and source code). Ask `help-gnu-emacs', or stack overflow, or whatever else only after asking Emacs itself. In the long run, doing that will be the most helpful, IMHO. Emacs knows more and usually explains better, when it comes to questions about Emacs. (Yes, asking Emacs can be harder for someone for whom English is not so easy. And yes, anyone is free to ignore my advice and ask a help list first - no problem.)