From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Placement of list within an interactive clause Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 05:16:28 +0300 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="32592"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/+ () (2022-06-11) Cc: carlmarcos@tutanota.com, Help Gnu Emacs To: Christopher Dimech Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 17 04:18:10 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtrG-0008HX-2e for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 04:18:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47060 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtrE-00022A-P7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:18:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60874) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtqq-00021m-EF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:48149) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oCtqo-0006LZ-9h for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:17:44 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.7.228]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000A3C53.0000000062D37142.00002377; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 19:17:38 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Christopher Dimech , carlmarcos@tutanota.com, Help Gnu Emacs Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:138510 Archived-At: * Christopher Dimech [2022-07-17 04:53]: > > Emacs is very interactive. > > > > Do you maybe think that functions without (interactive) declaration > > shall not ask user anything? > > > > When invoked only from Lisp there are many uses for such functions. > > Sure, but if you want a fully non-interactive function, do not call > minibuffer functionality in the body of the function. OK and now, how do I apply that advise? If I want X, then do not do Y. Of course. But how is such advise practically useful? What you are saying, seem to come from programming theories. > > Does it really need to be text input to be considered interactive? > > > > Logging of activities may be displayed in a buffer, that is > > interactive too. Input alone is not interaction. Changing Emacs style > > is also interaction and need not be invoked interactively. > > Defining interaction too broadly makes it useless, because it cannot > distinguish between anything. For emacs, interaction should always > be associated with direct user input (never with automatic input or > customisation within the program through elisp, unless you ask the user > to directly input operational inputs). If you decide to manipulate paragraph it is direct user input. If you press button to open browser it is direct user input. All key presses represent direct user input. Including sound recording, it is also direct user input. What would be example of indirect user input? Let me know about it. > For the broader context one can describe "intercommunication" with emacs. > Interactive in emacs in most times associated with user interaction via > M-x or keybinding. Word may have different definitions. Which definition applies depends of the context of the word. You are mixing both Emacs definition of (interactive) and common definitions. And then you insist that a beep, flash, movement of window borders, text scaling, paragraph manipulations and similar are not interactive, but only minibuffer input is to be considered interactive. And now we have a new word "intercommunication" as well. Too much theory, too little practical use. In general, theory does not bring nothing without practical use. What is (interactive) is not same as "interactive" as in English language. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/