From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Fwd: How do I go about debugging my Elisp code? Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:57:22 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87czku1hon.fsf@gnu.org> <878rvi1d6j.fsf@gnu.org> <87ilumus54.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2233"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.1.5+104 (cd3a5c8) (2022-01-09) Cc: Davin Pearson , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 14 18:58:54 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Qqj-0000M0-8L for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 18:58:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58196 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Qqh-0002Vt-W6 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:58:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46234) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Qpu-0002Vk-RD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:58:02 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:46887) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n8Qps-0006y2-Un; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:58:02 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.210.145.184]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000037E5B.0000000061E1B9A5.00003F27; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:57:57 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Tassilo Horn , Davin Pearson , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87ilumus54.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:135293 Archived-At: * Tassilo Horn [2022-01-14 20:47]: > Jean Louis writes: > > >> I don't think that an emacs package is a modification of emacs itself > >> or a derivative work. > > > > If you modify variable you are modifying Emacs. > > So if I want to give some help-searching user the hint to reproduce an > error with debug-on-error set to t, I should write my reply as given in > the below? I would assume that your minimal contributions to Emacs are under the same license as Emacs and simply include it how it is in my code if I wish, but then I would say it was authored by yourself. Then in case of complaint from your side I could adapt it how you and me think it is alright. It is good to be practical. > I mean, according to your reasoning, I'm publishing a modification of > emacs here. Which is right. Though, see above. > > If you create a function than such software modifies Emacs as function > > did not exist in Emacs. It creates new function. Thus new function > > is modification of Emacs itself. > > IMHO, modification is usually meant as copying and adapting code. > Setting a variable is more or less configuration. An interesting aspect > are advices which allow modifying existing functions without physically > touching their source code. Your code can be nothing else but setting variables. If your program cannot run without main part named Emacs, than such modification represent new work, and is thus modification of Emacs and has to carry the license. I am pointing to it for the exact same reason like you, just from different angle. Many people are not aware of it. But as I said, small parts of code on mailing list I would re-use if necessary in GNU GPL package while giving credit to author until some complaint would come. > >> But I'm not sure if merely posting some basically private code > >> somewhere on a private homepage or on some pastebin requires you to > >> add a license notice. > > > > It does, otherwise it is considered incompatible to Emacs as it is > > automatically proprietary. > > Well, I'd say that's kind of a grey area. Of course, elisp code that is > published on the interwebs without specifying a compatible license > cannot be subject for inclusion or linkage in my super-duper elisp > package which I intend to publish on some package archive. However, I > wouldn't go so far to accuse someone posting his ~/.emacs or some other > code snippets of license infringement. Though yes, ~/.emacs published is code modifying Emacs and shall be published under the free software license compatible with Emacs. That it is commonly not indicated does not make it less infringement. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/