From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Noob dumb question (extending emacs) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2021 00:22:03 +0300 Message-ID: References: <86k0i6uoxd.fsf@duenenhof-wilhelm.de> <871r4ernmt.fsf@zoho.eu> <87o87hnrpt.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9499"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28) Cc: help-gnu-emacs , Emanuel Berg To: Yuri Khan Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 22 23:27:04 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1me248-0002DV-6g for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 23:27:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36428 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1me246-0008Rj-0M for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 17:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38590) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1me23T-0008Ra-1Q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 17:26:23 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:38721) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1me23O-0005OK-2C for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 17:26:22 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.75.191.219]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000065D91.0000000061732C56.00007F6F; Fri, 22 Oct 2021 14:25:42 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Yuri Khan , Emanuel Berg , help-gnu-emacs Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134029 Archived-At: * Yuri Khan [2021-10-22 21:52]: > On Sat, 23 Oct 2021 at 00:55, Jean Louis wrote: > > > For people interested, manual explains about randomity: > > (info "(elisp) Random Numbers") > > > > How I understand it, than it may be that neither `pwgen' is generating > > truly random numbers. > > Inspecting the source shows pwgen uses /dev/urandom if available, and > /dev/random otherwise, and all bytes of the password come from one of > those sources. These are > > On the other hand, the manual for Emacs ‘random’ says: > > A deterministic computer program cannot generate true random numbers. > For most purposes, “pseudo-random numbers” suffice. > > Spoiler: secure password generation is not one of those purposes. That only when looking from the viewpoint of perfection. We could even go further and say that computers were not meant initially to store any data, and safe storage of data requires professional engineering and safety. But people do store data on computers. And hard disks fail all the time. Absolutes are not attainable and practically any LISP can generate passwords just as many other random outcomes. What matters is practicality. Can a program generate a practical random password? If answer is YES, it is useful. For huge majority of users it does not matter neither they can know that passwords have their seeds or that they are not truly random. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/