From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Is it ok to sort a list of overlays destructively? Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 09:20:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87h7ggcov1.fsf@mbork.pl> <83bl6nvpcl.fsf@gnu.org> <87czr3ecpc.fsf@mbork.pl> <83wnpbtbsk.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl6ndlb3.fsf@mbork.pl> <83sfzyu0he.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtq5s3jg.fsf@gnu.org> <83im0trvbq.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3995"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 29 18:20:51 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m98mB-0000si-5C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:20:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44286 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m98mA-00069A-6l for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:20:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60994) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>) id 1m98lp-00068R-Fb for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from www458.your-server.de ([136.243.165.62]:54450) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>) id 1m98ln-00020A-5Z for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:20:28 -0400 Original-Received: from sslproxy01.your-server.de ([78.46.139.224]) by www458.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92.3) (envelope-from <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>) id 1m98lk-0000TF-ME for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:20:24 +0200 Original-Received: from [2607:fb90:a68e:304f:51df:ae6e:8d42:34a9] (helo=localhost) by sslproxy01.your-server.de with esmtpsa (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com>) id 1m98lj-0003Fz-Nl for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:20:24 +0200 Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83im0trvbq.fsf@gnu.org> X-Authenticated-Sender: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (ClamAV 0.103.2/26247/Thu Jul 29 10:19:18 2021) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=136.243.165.62; envelope-from=2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com; helo=www458.your-server.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:132182 Archived-At: On 2021-07-29 at 18:30:49 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 08:11:46 -0700 > > From: 2QdxY4RzWzUUiLuE@potatochowder.com > > > > > > I am not sure if such a statement exists in any of the manuals. Should > > > > it not be stated explicitly somewhere? > > > > > > I don't think it should be, no. It's pretty much obvious, IMO. > > > > I'm not disagreeing, but why is it obvious? > > Because anything else is a bug, for the same reason that you > rightfully expect Emacs not to crash when some Lisp program does > something silly. That's very thought provoking. Thank you. If I believe (and maybe I'm old!) that "Emacs is the extensible, customizable, self-documenting, real-time display editor," then I wouldn't be surprised at all if some Lisp program caused Emacs to crash. After all, those Lisp programs have [a great deal of] access to Emacs' internals. I don't realize the expectation you mentioned unless/until I think of Emacs as platform of some kind, upon which I build a program. To that end, https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/ does now claim that "[a]t its core is an interpreter for Emacs Lisp, a dialect of the Lisp programming language with extensions to support text editing." I'm definitely closer to "it's obvious" than I was earlier. :-) My descriptionb of overlays-in (I don't have the C source code handy, only what appears when I run describe-function in Emacs 27.2) matches Marcin's and doesn't describe sorting.