From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Unicode fonts - Re: Why do I find ^L in elisp code? Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 21:05:28 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87im3a5xqc.fsf@zoho.eu> <83h7iuj6i1.fsf@gnu.org> <837djodvja.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33873"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 24 20:11:52 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1llF3P-0008eC-TT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 20:11:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57680 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llF3P-00004v-0D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 14:11:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35792) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llF0K-0007HS-0G for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 14:08:40 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:42123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1llF0H-0005Pu-OF; Mon, 24 May 2021 14:08:39 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:154.230.106.158]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000ADF01.0000000060ABEB82.000037A6; Mon, 24 May 2021 11:08:01 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <837djodvja.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:130191 Archived-At: * Eli Zaretskii [2021-05-24 18:03]: > > Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 17:24:54 +0300 > > From: Jean Louis > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs > > > > These letters like ๐ฆ๐š๐ญ๐ก๐ž๐ฆ๐š๐ญ๐ข๐œ๐š๐ฅ ๐›๐จ๐ฅ๐ should be supported by every > > English screen reader, regardless > > How far are you prepared to go with these ridiculous "should be > supported" requirements? That is up to screen reader authors to decide. Language is ever changing. Before some decades we did not have computer for language development, now we have it. Meanings are everywhere. It is up to screen reader to try to decipher such meanings. Just as the language is constantly adapting and changing to reflect our changing lives, experiences and culture, so do the written and digital symbols by which we express various meanings. Example is for word ๐—ณ๐˜‚๐—ป๐—ป๐˜† expressed with mathematial sans-serif bold Unicode chars that gives us 9000+ results on Bing.com: https://www.bing.com/search?q=%f0%9d%97%b3%f0%9d%98%82%f0%9d%97%bb%f0%9d%97%bb%f0%9d%98%86&search=&first=61&FORM=PERE5 Humans do express meanings by using mathematical sans-serif bold Unicode, including all other possible Unicode characters, bill๐—ถons of times. Combinations are many, it is not easy work, it is up to authors to decide what to support, and what not. > Would you also like "ั€ะตะฐัะต" to be supported by English screen > readers, for example? Definitely, just that I don't understand the meaning of your question. Do you mean that piece and peace would be spoken same? Do you think the โ˜ฎ? Good screen readers should be built-in into OS, be part of the OS, and they should by default support all languages on the planet wherever OS is distributed. Because we don't work organized as ants, we may never accomplish such goal, we work as human. > You are judging characters by their appearance, which is incorrect. Yes, surely I understand it may be technically incorrect, though humanely it gives a style even in those cases where text style cannot be otherwise assigned. For example in search engines, email subjects, social media interactions, and so on. The 9000 search results show that 9000 authors most probably don't even know that those Latin characters have some other purposes. The trend will continue, in few years it will be maybe 50000 results or 100,000 results, all with meanings easily interpreted by humans. Screen reader authors may decide to support such. > Characters should be judged by their codepoints and their > attributes, not by how they look in some particular font. (โ€ขโ—กโ€ข) Maybe yes, maybe yes, but we cannot tell that to thousands of people who already use it. Language is changing, written language is also changing. People communicate. In terms of a program if there is nothing mathematical and program finds several let us say mathematical bold Unicode characters, that program can replace it with normal letters and read as such. It is also possible to recognize if letters belong to the English language before reading it. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/