From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Org mode rant Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 02:04:16 +0300 Message-ID: References: <874kfn292f.fsf@disroot.org> <87a6pfh1dj.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40653"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 01 01:09:32 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lccGK-000AS8-5N for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 01:09:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59106 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lccGJ-0000op-4d for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:09:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57864) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lccFi-0000oX-8d for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:08:54 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:60151) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lccFf-0006MS-PF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 19:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:154.231.162.22]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000046239.00000000608C8E01.000072F9; Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:08:48 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87a6pfh1dj.fsf@zoho.eu> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129238 Archived-At: * Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor [2021-05-01 01:11]: > Jean Louis wrote: > > > Org mode is one of popular modes > > Sure but not everyone likes it. For notes I have been using database for long time, then in 2016, I found about Org mode, and it is quite helpful to quickly without direct LaTeX usage generate good quality PDF files, so I have been using it for projects mostly. As I deal with hundreds of people, soon there were too many Org files for each person tasks and transactions. That becomes mess, as I cannot query through it, text files are separate from each other. Sending or sharing tasks is pain, and I had to extend it myself, collaboration is non-existent. Then before few months I have decided to switch all Org files that have some tasks, notes, transactions into the database, and I will not go back. Now if I wish, I can generate and export to Org file, but not vice versa. This way I am editing things on meta-level. And I do like that. There are still 2500 Org files on my computer. But I have figured out how to move it to database. I like having the opportunity to reference even a single item in a list, which is not possible with Org. I like to reference any paragraph I wish or join and order Org chunks in the database as I wish, including mix Org chunks or database blobs with other types like images, videos, PDFs, Markdown, etc. Org is so much better for writing or document preparation than for management of procrastination, I mean tasks. One nice thing is that TODO is highlighted, but that is quite easy to achieve in Emacs anyway. There is too much hype about it. Blatant and sensational promotion. Oh my heaven. The hype draws many people to it, and so many get stuck into bad design. Text is text, but it wants to be structured text, and it wants to be database, but it cannot. And programmers try their best, but will never be a database. And because there is no connection to any kind of a database, it becomes very tiresome to code even simple things like tagging with some dates and stamps. Database has that already built-in and to keep trace of date/time stamps becomes trivial. Properties in Org file are right there in front of the eyes, confusing everybody who is confronted with it. My properties are in the database entry, I can see them on a click, but don't need to. TASKS - they are too often related to people, we have to do something for others, others have to do something for us, or for others, people do tasks, tasks are assigned to people, tasks are shared to people and groups of people. There are no such concepts in Org, it is left to user to find for himself, and there is no universaly helpful method. Org is pleasure, it is interesting, it will help those who otherwise could not help themselves and Org remains to be extremely useful. For me it is not. I like to create a task, like today, we receive Western Union in a group, I duplicate old task, change some information, press a key and task is sent by email to the assigned person, SMS notification follows up or even a call. While same can be done in Org file, due to it not really being structured with separate data from each other, it is much error prone. I found it surprising that a TASK cannot be default be assigned to a person and that there is no built-in function to send it by e-mail but I found my way with Org. > > it has 52 matches for "(eval " on my computer > > But that's not the reason, is it? :O Who knows. Org Babel has to evaluate scripts and insert into buffer. That is some type of evaluation I am doing for WWW publishing. I could as well evaluate templates with any other language specified. ⟦ (perl 2+2) ⟧ would work equally well as anything from "(perl" to ")" could be evaluated by perl, not Emacs Lisp. So much hype about Org and literate programming that people don't even find true beauties of programs such as: Cherrytree - hierarchical note taking application with rich text and syntax highlighting https://www.giuspen.com/cherrytree/ Leo editor vs Org-mode https://leoeditor.com/emacs.html Leo programmable editor http://leoeditor.com/ -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/