From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Org mode rant Date: Sat, 1 May 2021 13:42:36 +0300 Message-ID: References: <874kfn292f.fsf@disroot.org> <87a6pfh1dj.fsf@zoho.eu> <87sg37giak.fsf@gnu.org> <87eeeqojja.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24941"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Bastien Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 01 12:44:52 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lcn7E-0006O7-8u for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 12:44:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45806 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcn7D-0002of-Db for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 06:44:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59616) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcn6E-0002jU-AW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 01 May 2021 06:43:50 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:44437) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lcn6B-00084C-Us; Sat, 01 May 2021 06:43:49 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:154.231.162.22]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000046239.00000000608D30E0.00003FB5; Sat, 01 May 2021 03:43:43 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Bastien , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87eeeqojja.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, MONEY_NOHTML=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129272 Archived-At: * Bastien [2021-05-01 13:06]: > Jean Louis writes: > > >> Because it gives you a false sense of control, it slowly erodes your > >> goals' clarity, which weakens your motivation. You end up being > >> controlled by a list of things to do instead of focusing on doing > >> them. You hope that your tool will help you achieve self-discipline > >> instead of disciplining yourself to use it the right way. > > > > Maybe if you tell your practical use case where you got stuck, then it > > would become clearer for me as reader. I am so much interested. > > I cannot go into details about my real use-case here but the gist of > the paragraph you quote is this: once in a while you feel your tool is > not helpful enough for handling your to-do, and then you start trying > to fix your Org configuration, trusting it even more, instead of > sticking to the principles I tried to outline in my post. I get it. Yes, that is exactly observation I had too before few months, it brought me to the condition to escape Org mode and rather use it more in the sense of markup of the overal instructions. Maybe the article shall more clearly refer to Org mode, rather than being general note-taking statement. Org Hype is fine, I like it. Not that I find Org mode exponentially useful. I guess people tend, like me too, to designate or determine one system "this is it" and build upon it for quite long time, even rest of the life, even though "this isn't the one". As a side note, here is the workflow I have for things assigned to other people or to me: 1. Have Org template ready with instructions and repeatable project in the database; all items inside are always "TODO"; there is no file on file system; 2. Copy template with single key, assign whole node to single person; this is like single TODO tag; 3. Share document by email to that person; share 20 such projects assigned to multiple people; 4. Receive reports; update what is "DONE" in their nodes related to specific person, in the central file or as central node (Org blob), but that does not necessarily complete the overal assignment for the person; but it is not necessary to use "DONE/TODO" in such project as overall assignment is maybe "Sell service for US $100,000" -- maybe single task tells "Prepare list of 2000 people" -- but if salesman already got a client for to buy the service, all other tasks become redundant, as purpose has been achieved during the project execution. Some people have serious troubles understanding the purpose and single tasks, and will rather go doing single tasks for the sake of themselves only while forgetting the purpose. If purpose have been achieved, even that single task becomes redundant. 5. When assignment is done, mark with COMPLETE, and write report about it; Instead of pending tasks, I can search for people pending the assignment. Agenda becomes list of people and their pending project title. Archiving becomes redundant too, as the node is anyway archived in the database and whole instruction marked as COMPLETED, though there are are maybe redundant tasks inside of node still marked with TODO -- such will never appear in any agenda or list because they are irrelevant as the overall purpose is COMPLETED. Person goes out to buy new shoes, and make a list of 10 shops to visit, but maybe shoe seller on street has already got some nice shoes, thus all other tasks for the sake of purpose, become redundant. This is not always so, it depends of task types of course. Org mode can also be used as presentation of the database backed information where each heading or section may be edited, as long as there is right property defined, the information may be updated in the database. Then the Org mode, rather Org method of editing could become truly collaborative, not necessarily in he real time. A salesman Jimmy in New York, could request information on customer Joe, information can be displayed as Org mode. Salesman may edit some personal information of Joe, such is updated to central database in Boston. Another salesman Mark may be editing a note belonging to client Joe, and update it, both Jimmy and Mark would get notice of it; Mark could give assignment to Joe to make a call to customer and englighten him on new products; Joe's Org file would get a notice and Org file would get updated; Joe makes a phone call and right notice, the notes get updated in the database; each of them is collaborating by using apparently simple Org file while underlying functions connect each heading to the central database. People mostly use WWW browsers for that type of Customer Relationship Management software, yet Emacs can be used with Org mode editing. Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/