From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Using unmaintained plugins Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 07:03:33 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87o8ea9376.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37995"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Bithov Vinu Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 21 06:09:05 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ4Aj-0009ft-J3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:09:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36908 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ4Ai-0005dF-Lc for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 00:09:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34852) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ4AO-0005d7-Ab for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 00:08:44 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:53283) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lZ4AL-0007ig-2H for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 00:08:43 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000029EB2.00000000607FA546.000070C6; Tue, 20 Apr 2021 21:08:37 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Bithov Vinu , Marcin Borkowski , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: 1 X-Spam_score: 0.1 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URI_DOTEDU=1.999 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129103 Archived-At: * Bithov Vinu [2021-04-20 23:20]: > This argument seems reductive at best - we are yet to know where > in the brain conciousness derives, or even if it is in the brain > at all rather than in a "soul" of some sort - yet the majority of > people agree that conciousness, as it is commonly understood, > exists. Including scientists from Max Planck Institute, those researching quantum physics, they found there is no matter, and matter must come from something which is nothing, in other words something spiritual. Recommended is to listen to Hans-Peter Dürr. > We (and by we I mean humanity as a collective) know the precise probabilities > that a subatomic particle (or wave??) is in a certain state. > We have no idea why it is that way, but we most certainly now it is. That is quantym physics, in the end, scientists in quantum physics can prove that matter is not there. Sounds contradictive to everything we know. > > Especially me, who is one of them: > > https://html.duckduckgo.com/html/?q=children+who+remember+past+lives > > > > cannot easily just say that "memory decays". > > I'm immediately skeptical of this claim - I have trouble believing that > you are able to remember your past lives - not just because there > is no research whatsoever that shows any evidence that the concept of past > lives exists. There is a lot of research and a lot of evidences. To say there is no research one would need to know ALL of the human knowledge. And research on the subject is older than you think. Would you have trouble believing that I remember I was on swimming pool last Sunday? That is the same, I know I was, and somebody comes and tells me, no you did not. What a uncomfortable situation. It is also not important. And it is not about believing. Somebody simply tells experience. When I started talking with 3 years, I had no reason whatsoever to lie around. References: https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/our-research/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/ https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/publications/academic-publications/children-who-remember-previous-lives-academic-publications/ I have few friends, they could recall the names, profession and whatever other identifications so that information could be used to find files, documentary traces, of those people in past. Research old books, this has been talked of since the mankind on this planet. Now is 21st century and we still deny it. If you have your own personal memory that you were on swimming pool last Sunday, nobody can take you that. > Regardless, this delves into the ideas of the supernatural, which by > its very nature cannot be explained through empirical research, and > more importantly, isn't the topic of interest on this mailing list You never know when it will result with Emacs Lisp package for example for the recall. I have some clues how to do it. We came to it from Org Drill. Things you do not know are not necessarily supernatural. Things are not supernatural just because they cannot be explained through empirical research, though it is questionable if they cannot, as I said, one can prove it in many cases by finding previous graves, locations, files, documents. There are reasons for amnesia, people don't identify any more with past experiences. That you were on swimming pool last Sunday, cannot also be explained through empirical research. Is it supernatural? That you love somebody and who do you love, cannot also be explained through empirical research, is it supernatural? > > Repetitions methods I have been using as a child as I was in the > > environment where nobody knew better, neither my parents or > > grandparents neither teachers. > > I think this might be me being overly cynical, but I'd generally > lean to being distrustworthy of someone who claims to have unearthed > (ancient?) knowledge and wisdom in relation to memory, that even the > most advanced and experimental of neuroscience hasn't hypothesised. Seem like you know all of the advanced and experimental of neuroscience, though empirically it may be easily proven that you do lack a lot of references otherwise easy findable on Internet. ;-) > > Then I got the a sexy coach to teach me polynomials. Boy, I was getting it right! > > She explained me so that I understand it in all details. > > I really, really don't like how you phrased this. I can't find > any official GNU mailing list etiquette rules that aren't > in relation to formatting emails, but I feel like describing > your coach as first and foremost "sexy" is gross > and undignified. Again, this is personal preference, there > is seemingly nothing in the GNU etiquette to prevent this > (though I may certainly be wrong, I haven't done more than > quickly skim the rules). That she was sexy was motivational event for learning. It is normal human experience so far I know. Some people may be asexual, majority of people do find sexy things on the sexes they like. My coach would be so pleased to hear me say that today, just I cannot find her. By the way I know so many friends as females like more than 250+ and not even one that would ever complain that I know on being called sexy. > I'm glad it has worked for you. This doesn't mean, however, that the > knowledge you reaped is valuable for everyone, as you seem to be > pushing it. The body of evidence surrounding spaced repetition, > however, is, and can, generally, be applicable for everyone. Of > course, mnemonics may have worked exceptionally well for you, but > you may be the exception rather than the rule - for the vast > majority of people, using spaced repetition will yield success (in > terms of retention). For polynomials it was rather learning with understanding and practice, not really mnemonics as techniques. Those I have been using as demonstration of memorization as feats for entertainment. Of course it was not really and solely memorization but that is what people think as they cannot look in my mind. Mnemonics is something people with imagination can learn, anybody with imagination. I think those who lack imagination would have a hard time with it. When a number is told like number eight, pure memorization would need just repetition or thinking of number 8, while by using some popular associative mnemotechniques would require imagination and thus creation of associations that could involve a whole story within less than a second. It is interesting that imagination can also be improved by practice, but I would not wonder much if there are people who would have again problems practicing. In mass communications and analysis of people I do currently, I can see that all people I have contacted claimed to have some previous education and thus imply to know how to read, but in the end one significant number of them know more how to talk then how to read. As they have serious problems understanding a rather simple letter. A surprise that good number of people can technically read but not practically understand tells me somehow indicates that if I would ask them about imagination, I could as well find those who have serious troubles with imaginations. Number of people asked about dreams told me they never dream, which comes surprisingly to me, who dreams as soon as my eyes are closed, and often after I open my eyes... > > To say how your system, which improves your memory is not mnemonics > > only to "debunk" other systems comes from a conflict of interest, but > > any system helping the memory is mnemonics nevertheless. > > Here's something that debunks this better than I ever could > (rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_dictionarium). There isn't > really much otherwise to be said. While technically the SuperMemo > method may fall under the "mnemonics" category, it isn't > semantically similar to what most people think of when thinking > about mnemonics. Dictionaries show us those definitions of words that people currently agree upon while some words are so new that they are not necessarily in a dictionary or they may be harder to find. That is where Internet and various contexts may help to understand it. I don't use definitions of words for manipulations. When I see that you understand the word in some quite different context, I may indicate it as it may not be that what is commonly understood with it. Spaced repetition is by the definition mnemonics, yet you consider it not, but then we have other people who do consider repetition to be mnemonics. It is up to you to decide. You are also free to use any word anyhow, then problems of understanding and misunderstanding may arise. References: https://poets.org/glossary/repetition Quote: "Repetition, as in rhyme, is a strong mnemonic device" http://www.syncrat.com/posts/5258/mnemonic-devices where repetition is mentioned as mnemonic device. > And to that point, I'd argue that SuperMemo is not a technique to > aid the memory, rather, a method of analysis and observation of > memory. Using Supermemo does not in and of itself improve one's > memory, instead, it exploits the very biological nature of > memory. The science surrounding the biological mechanisms underlying > the spacing effect is explored in Piotr Wozniak's PhD thesis, linked > here (https://www.supermemo.com/en/archives1990-2015/english/ol). That is too hard for me. When I read "Supermemo" it is like to aid memory to become super, but you say it is not, kind of contradictory, I was thinking it aids the memory but you say it does not aid the memory., it is just for analysis. Larger issue at hand is that in GNU we shall not recommend proprietary software and rather create free software that does the same purpose, so it is good you found Org Drill, and it would be possible to get formula for those intervals and integrate them into various learning techniques. While I don't find it as best general method for learning, I remember some sets of historical and numerical fact questions with A, B, C answers could by repetition easier be remembered. This method may be said to be "pull"-type of spaced repetition as person oneself decides on when to excercise the practice. On my side, I also use repetition to get a message across and make sales by using spaced intervals, and this method may be said to be "push"-type of spaced repetition, as person is informed by SMS, email, letter, fax or call about the opportunities that one can buy. Thus repetition intervals could maybe be of use in sales, as it brings people to remember the service or product easier. That is a program to send emails, it will not send email that has been already sent, and it takes care of specific time interval between sending. Time intervals are recorded in the database table. Thus for Emacs I would say that set of data on the disk or in the database has to record times when specific questions or memory practices have been exercised. Additionally, if computer is running, and user does not remember to practice, those intervals would pass, that requires also reminders to run the program again. I have tried clicking on references but links don't work. It could be possible to make generic table that keeps intervals in the database and then generic events to be done by using those intervals. The principle could be used either for personal learning or teaching other people like in mass communication, courses, and propagation of marketing for sales purposes. Then database and program could be: 0. Table of people; 1. Table for types of events, like question to be repeated, or email to be sent; 2. Events referencing the types; those could get some data to present to user; it could be like questions and answers or emails, SMS to be sent; intervals that has to pass before the event is asked has to be recorded somewhere; 3. Table of executed events with times; this one would keep time intervals when events have been executed last time. For example the event or excercise A1 would be noted with the time when it was answered and if it was answered correctly or not; if email was pushed and interacted with, or not; interaction to sent communication indicates understanding; in my database I call this table "mailings" as it records when specific email has been sent to a person. 4. Algorithm decides if specific event from table (2) above would need to be invoked. There can be hundreds or thousands of events. That is where SQL queries comes very handy as for example in PostgreSQL one can easily find data by using time intervals; 5. Emacs Lisp and Emacs as interface can process and display events. Does the technique involves questions with answers like A, B, C, always? That would be pretty limiting. But I did that once as a quiz questions, as that can be used to send a lesson, have user answer it and automatically evaluate the results. In this case quiz like questions could be used for teaching. Then administrator could enter all the data first, for example by adding questions and incorrect and correct answers. Once all information has been added program can run, verify intervals, and people may excercise. You could maybe send here the intervals for repetition for SM-5? What format need to be questions/answers? Is it like quiz or it can be anything, like facts? -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ https://rms-support-letter.github.io/