From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:18:36 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87y2fq540m.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <1e609e14-ecdd-10cb-df7a-4bdd350ff93c@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="3398"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, Robert Thorpe To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 16 08:24:26 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lBuig-0000ku-IU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 08:24:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43320 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBuif-0008CK-LX for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 02:24:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40840) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBuhp-0008A4-P1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 02:23:33 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:34983) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lBuhj-0007hD-Hg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 02:23:33 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.34.167]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000120E8.00000000602B72CC.00000D19; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 00:22:52 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Dmitry Gutov , Robert Thorpe , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1e609e14-ecdd-10cb-df7a-4bdd350ff93c@yandex.ru> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:128113 Archived-At: * Dmitry Gutov [2021-02-15 21:29]: > There are tradeoffs in any decision. > > Freeing 'C-z' up, for example, won't help most authors anyway. That is not freeing, that is blocking shell users. User experience from yesterday, I was running "guix search editor" in the quest to find ways to get Leo editor running on my computer, but with fail. Any way, I found "ne" or nice editor, and I installed it. But I did not know keybindings, so Control-Z would work, it would save my work. What if I had some other jobs running in the same time, let us say some processing in background, I invoke "ne" and do not know how to exit, I wish to read the manual, but I cannot, so Control-Z works, I can read the manual and come back to "ne", exit out of it, and come back to my more important job processing. So far all editors I have invoked also give the support for shell job control, just nano needs tweaking beforehand. I am surprised. Exactly same thing would happen if shell user invokes Emacs but cannot exit or get surprised. What if Emacs user invokes by mistake spacemacs, maybe cannot exit out of it. I have been invoking viper mode in past and did not know how to exit out of it as I did not know where is M-x any more. You think you are freeing the key, but I think you are disabling freedom to shell users.