From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 17:32:09 +0300 Message-ID: References: <3966473cc17dcc4d4a30@heytings.org> <87y2fv2g5o.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16868"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: Gregory Heytings , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Robert Thorpe Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 15:37:39 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAD6B-0004Hc-76 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:37:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40052 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAD69-0004nU-2o for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:37:38 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33394) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAD26-00022w-4N for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:33:32 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:39709) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAD1s-00067z-NP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 09:33:22 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.3]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E07B.0000000060254005.00004AC1; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 07:32:36 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Robert Thorpe , Gregory Heytings , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87y2fv2g5o.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127812 Archived-At: * Robert Thorpe [2021-02-11 10:55]: > There is another issue.... I'm not sure that third-party packages will > use the feature. I'm also on the Reddit Emacs group. Several of the > people there use and develop third-party packages. It seems to me that > they often do that because they don't want to contribute to core. Some > don't like the core Emacs development team and don't agree with their > direction for Emacs. So, would they use such a prefix key if it were > offered? Perhaps not. In relation to those negative impressions, it would be good to lessen generalization as then this is presented here to other people on mailing list and feeling may go down the hill, maybe for no good reason or justification. Instead of telling "they don't want to contribute to core" it would be better to say "one person" or "two persons" or better "two persons among 12" would not like to contribute to the core and then to tell reasons why, so to be more specific. Core developers are IMHO friendly and hard working programmers, extremely cooperative compared to many other societies of people, and that statement now draws some imaginary negative image without presenting any facts to it. "Some don't like the core Emacs development team" -- so instead of generalizations like that, it would be good to provide the references as hyperlinks to those statements, that we understand what are the actual real world problems as only so the problems can be solved. Did those developers already try to participate in emacs development? There is no factual information, so generalization like that, so is better to minimize spreading of uncertainties. You may invite specific people to tell here on the mailing list if they have any proposal for improvements. What I see personally is that developers give 20 times more effort in discussion and there is effort to comfort various opinions of unknown and known people on this mailing list, they behave kind. Somebody may like it or not, but instead of generalization it is better to know exact references to any factual problems. Jean