From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Debunking Emacs merits over GUI - Re: package for Email Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 10:05:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20230118180348.gzwvy6iztok45ko3@zoho.com> <20230119161030.vt4muwcdvuwdqmj7@zoho.com> <877cxgrc3e.mmmtqrm@thhcbmmmd.mijofcrcc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14379"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Bob Newell Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 21 08:07:04 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pJ7xv-0003Za-SR for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:07:03 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJ7xM-0000aZ-Gd; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:06:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJ7xJ-0000aJ-VE for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:06:25 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJ7xH-0003w9-Li for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 02:06:25 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.14.92]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000103952.0000000063CB8ED1.00002BEC; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 00:05:53 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Bob Newell , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <877cxgrc3e.mmmtqrm@thhcbmmmd.mijofcrcc.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142458 Archived-At: * Bob Newell [2023-01-21 03:08]: > > Objectively, Emacs is not an option as e-mail client for anybody. > > I must differ as I think "anybody" is too broad. There are > thousands of Gnus users, myself included. Gnus enables me to > do things--- things important to my work and pursuits--- that > would be much more laborious or maybe not even possible with > other clients. You are right, it is generalization, which I did not intend. I have expressed me in the way how I did not want. I am myself using Emacs to start composing e-mails, and to manage e-mails in combination with various tools, and sometimes I use Emacs e-mail package. I wanted to say that objectively when somebody is looking for e-mail client, it is not good to recommend Emacs in first place. Any e-mail client enable people to do important tasks. So it is `mail' too! I bet you do not use `mail' on command line. And me too, I do not use it often on command line, but I may use it sometimes, and I use it hundreds of thousands of times from within Emacs! However, that I use `mail' in that particular way is very specific to me. We make thousands and thousands of dollars by using `mail' and the packge Emacs Lisp: rcd-mail.el package as bindings to GNU Mailutils "mail" program: https://hyperscope.link/3/8/3/0/3/rcd-mail-el-GNU-Mailutils-mail-program.html My personal use is related to integration with other packages in Emacs, for example, I don't like composing e-mails, and I prefer to simply write e-mail, while everything else is handled for me: - e-mail subject, to be automatically handled (or customized when necessary) - greetings, to be automatically handled, - my identity towards recipient, to be automatically handled, - my signature to be automatically handled All of the messages are where? In the table `messages'. I can easily find any message sent in that automated manner. And messages have their types: 1 E-mail 2 SMS 3 XMPP 4 Call 5 Talk Now imagine a list of communication lines, like e-mail, SMS, XMPP: Bob, e-mail, bob@example.com Bob, SMS, +1234567890 bob, XMPP, bob@xmpp.example I don't think of e-mails, I think of "Bob" and that I have to tell him something, so I mark those above three lines, and write single message. Single message is then sent to all of those communication lines, alerting person on what we have to talk about. Why think of invoking XMPP client? Why think of getting phone in my hand and type? Why think of invoking e-mail client? What I think of is that what I have to communicate to person. So in my environment I find myself efficient as I keep working on integration of functions for human need. It is very easy to teach staff member to: ----------------------------------------- - find person among many people in Emacs or other tool (because there is universally accessible database in background) - click on "l c" for "List Communication Lines" - mark communication lines - send message or prepared document Instead of teaching people: --------------------------- - to use Thunderbird, Emacs mail client, etc. too much of software and hand work - to teach people how to use Gajim, Pidgin, Dino, Conversations, you name it, hand work - to teach them how to enter one person's contacts in each of the above software as they do not have integrated access to contacts database - to teach them how to attach documents, upload files, etc. way too much - then to give them task to send information to those people, all one by one. I find that approach efficient. Am I ever going to recommend it to acquaintance or person on mailing list as the way of handling e-mails? Rather no, because that is not the environment and need or demand by that person. IMHO, Emacs is last environment I would recommend average person. When person is let us say in GNU/Linux environment, than it becomes closer to recommendation. My staff members learned `mutt' and were using it properly. They have installed Hyperbola GNU/Linux-libre by following my advise on a Thinkpad computer. They however, were compelled into it. And they used it fine, because they took little time to learn basic functions. However, to recommend people to start with tools I am personally using, I say rather no, as that would waste their time. When person is willing to learn and wish to become efficient in some specific areas of life, I would again try to find what is the best fitting or best matching computing solution for that person. I am aware that my habits, experiences, skills, efficiency is all personal. It is not universal and applicable to everybody. > But that doesn't mean that some people find Gnus etc. to be a > very powerful productivity tool. Yes, I understand, sure. Me too, I was using it back in time, I don't remember when, maybe before 20 years, who knows. I was reading `news' with it. > I would like to generalize "human" to "requirements" based on > the job at hand, the capabilities and desires of the user, and > so on, to create a wholistic solution. Choosing software > prior to understanding what is needed is folly. Yet it is > done very often. (Queue entry of salespeople wearing suits > who talk only to corporate executives and never to end-users > about their multi-million dollar product. Said conversations > to take place on a private golf course.) That is right. Thanks for exchanging! -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/