From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: package for Email Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 18:15:57 +0300 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="40841"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: Gottfried Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 19 04:56:47 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pIM2h-000APw-2X for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 04:56:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIM2J-00050g-Na; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 22:56:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIM2G-0004rT-3I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 22:56:20 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIM2D-0005i5-H9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 22:56:19 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.7.243]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000103958.0000000063C8BF5F.00006CF8; Wed, 18 Jan 2023 20:56:14 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Gottfried , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -6 X-Spam_score: -0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142377 Archived-At: * Gottfried [2023-01-18 16:57]: > 1. Which Email package do you use? Best Email package for Emacs is program `mutt' https://www.mutt.org -- it's joke, is not Emacs but is console program. You may see features here: https://www.mutt.org/#features -- don't worry about SSL certificate, maintainer forgot to renew it. It even has mini-Lisp built-in. Mutt invokes Emacs and I answer E-mails. If I wish to compose E-mails I use Emacs. But I am fast in using it. I do not use M-x, rather I think of "Gottfried" and find person, then I just press key and e-mail is composed with my proper return identity to recipient. Try: M-x compose-mail When you set variables: user-full-name, user-mail-address Then here is the strategy for e-mails that I use for decades, which minimizes - your e-mail program shall be set in such way that you save ALL e-mails to and from recipient's email address in a single Maildir type of email folders (I think Thunderbird does not support it) - If your main e-mail folder is in ~/Maildir I strongly suggest everybody to save e-mails in this structure: ~/Maildir/gottfried@example1.com ~/Maildir/joedoe@gmail.com ~/Maildir/jane@yahoo.com Which means ALL e-mails related to that e-mail address to be in single Maildir folder. Maildir folders have cur, new, tmp, directories, so the structure is as following: ~/Maildir/jane@yahoo.com/cur ~/Maildir/jane@yahoo.com/tmp ~/Maildir/jane@yahoo.com/new Maildir folder is most error free. See: cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html: http://cr.yp.to/proto/maildir.html You do not think about saving e-mails and where and how. When e-mail client is set correctly, then I just press single key, and e-mail is saved in proper e-mail folder. Greatest benefit of this is that in an instant, in less than a second, you are able to see all previous conversation related to that person's e-mail address! Many people use indexed databases to search for e-mails, but because you first can see all the conversation for single person, you can use quick search by using e-mail client (mutt). > Can you tell your experience with your email package? I have tried them all. They can't handle my e-mails. If you think you will never do business with e-mail, then most powerful package I know is: ;; MH (Message Handler) is a powerful mail reader. See ;; https://rand-mh.sourceforge.io/. But I do not use it, as it waste my time. Mutt is fastest, most handy. I can't wait in other packages. `mu' for Emacs can't handle my e-mails! I have got too many. Just Maildir folders are there 59848, that means at least that many recipients. Despite the number of recipients, it is very easy to find all conversation for single recipient. In my case I just click, or press key on a person's entry, or in console I do like: $ emailsof gottfried@example.com and in Emacs similarly. It is possible to run Mutt in terminal inside of Emacs, looks like Emacs almost. > 2. Does it make sense for me as an emacs-newbie to change from using > thunderbird to an emacs email package? No. I don't recommend. Thunderbird has good features, multiple accounts, multiple identities, templates, I can just suggest using external editor if you wish to try out functions in e-mails like these: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-GB/thunderbird/addon/external-editor-revived/ > 3. There are > Rmail, GNU, Wanderlust, Mu4e etc... You should look in your personal requirements: - rmail -- I don't believe it supports multiple identities, but is really fine mail client - Gnus -- forget it (sorry Lars), is not worth effort long term - Wanderlust -- is usable, but why too much hassle when you already have Thunderbird - mu4e -- is really nice but only if you don't have too many e-mails. It can't handle my number of Maildirs, and indexing is in background, as long as you don't really have many e-mails, it will be good. But it works with mix or large number of emails, without any order. Remember, using one folder per recipient is strong principle that is useful to see any previous conversation related to some e-mail address. Mu4e can't do that for you. Thunderbird is for slow motion, Mutt is for speedy work. > 4. I prefer to habe folders because I like to have an overview. > Mu4e doesn't have folders. It has, it supports Maildir folders, you need to enable strategy. And remember, any kind of folders you have, you can convert them later to other folders. > 5. I want IMAP. IMAP is way how you fetch e-mails. I read IMAP with Mutt, but sometimes I fetch e-mails from IMAP to local computer first, then process them. > Do all of them provide IMAP? (does Rmail now provide IMAP)? If I remember well, first you fetch e-mails from IMAP to local folder then you read that local folder. Example settings: (setq rmail-default-file "/home/data1/protected/Mail/xmail") (setq rmail-movemail-program "movemail-p") (setq rmail-use-spam-filter t) > 7. Which one is easier to use? Mutt is easiest to use on long term, it will use Emacs in console and graphical environment, and it can be run from within Emacs in terminal. > 8. Should I start with Rmail? and later switch to GNU? IMHO, you stay with Thunderird. > At the moment I don't need GNU for reading news etc... Gnus > 9. Or is it useful to start with GNU because it has more options and I have > to learn it anyhow? and I can use it with org-mode? It is very good if you wish to waste time. Better watch movies. > 10. Do all of them have the same or similar keybindings or do I have to > learn for each one separate keybindings? Yes, they are all different. > 11. What are the benefits compared to thunderbird? Greatest benefit using Emacs is extensibility. But it also requires learning Emacs Lisp. Thunderbird is also extensible, that is why there are extensions. It is just different way of using them. In my opinion Thunderbird is way more ergonomic, so I would only use similar KMail or other programs, where you can use mouse and have faster access to options. Emacs does not offer fast access to all options, mouse usage is not enough developed in many Emacs programs. So if you are mouse user, you will quickly get stuck with those email programs in Emacs. > A. Only the keybindings of Emacs I can use and in knowing them it > will be easier in future to handle it? That is process that may never end. I use Mutt, so major keybindings are up, and down, with "j" "k" and arrows, and then "r" to reply or "g" for group reply, and "y" or "q", not much. Major issue is speed, it can speedily open up Maildir folder and show me. And often I bookmark e-mails, like here entry of single bookmark: Name "EIEIO for simple databases" Hyperlink "~/Maildir/michael_heerdegen@web.de" Arguments "87h7pwgbg1.fsf@web.de" Then on single click I get to that e-mail related to EIEIO. It is one of reasons I use Mutt. > B. It is within emacs and uses less CPU They don't spend CPU, but some of those e-mail programs will start complaining when you start handling many e-mails. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/