From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : Re: How to make M-x TAB not work on (interactive) declaration? Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:25:40 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87y1qdct5m.fsf@gnu.org> <874jt0imh0.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27972"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Cc: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 16 19:56:43 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pHUex-00074p-3T for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:56:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHUeR-0003bx-ND; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:56:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHUeQ-0003bo-0d for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:56:10 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHUeN-00047G-73 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 13:56:09 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.8.177]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D9C.0000000063C59DC7.00002895; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 11:56:07 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Drew Adams , Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142284 Archived-At: * Drew Adams [2023-01-16 20:07]: > > > > I do understand that there is some LISP mystery > > > > why is it so. > > > > > > This has nothing per se to do with Lisp. And there's > > > really no mystery. > > > > So is nothing to do with Lisp but is in Lisp, and is no source of > > information why is not so, but is not mystery. Then where is the > > reference why is it so in Lisp? > > "This" in "This has nothing per se..." refers to > "perhaps [what] you're missing [is] understanding > _zero as a number_, in 'number of arguments'" (see > my post). I understand better. Nevertheless description for those functions is not clearly written. > If you understood what I explained, then I thought > you'd likely understand Lisp's following the typical > math convention here. Sorry, but I still did not understand why. It is like asking why is that flower in your pocket on your suit, and you tell me how that flower is red, and it was always red flower of that type. But why is it on suit? > Others have explained the use of zero as an identity > in addition etc. Yes, I don't understand why is it in Lisp. > The use of `apply', pointed out by Anders, speaks > directly to "any number of arguments". It applies > a function (e.g. `+') to "any number of arguments", > which are passed as a list. Any number means also no argument? To me that is not clear. Any number of arguments is to me that it must be at least one argument, not no argument. I have got picture of justifications, but cannot see relation. Example: -------- * is a built-in function in ‘C source code’. (* &rest NUMBERS-OR-MARKERS) Return product of any number of arguments, which are numbers or markers. But without having arguments, the product is one, which contradicts multiplication how I know it. (*) ➜ 1 The Group Theory and identity is there as definitions which I could read, but I do not see relation between them and that function. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/