From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: (*)->1 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2023 09:21:53 +0300 Message-ID: References: <61c2cc81db661e2624771a06a1274eac.support1@rcdrun.com> <87y1qdct5m.fsf@gnu.org> <874jt0imh0.fsf@dataswamp.org> <875ydeas0w.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25128"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 13 07:22:50 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pGDSj-0006Lc-Qq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2023 07:22:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGDSC-0008Ay-4j; Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:22:16 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGDSA-0008Aq-SA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGDS8-0006Ks-Iv for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:22:14 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:102.85.161.28]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D66.0000000063C0F892.00001314; Thu, 12 Jan 2023 23:22:09 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <875ydeas0w.fsf@dataswamp.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142221 Archived-At: * Emanuel Berg [2023-01-13 03:23]: > Jean Louis wrote: > > >> (+) ; 0 > > > > Why? It is wrong. > > > >> (*) ; 1 > > > > Why? It is wrong. > > It makes sense in the way that 0 and 1 are the identity > elements for addition and multiplication, respectively. I can think of it this way:nn + is function and it follows by nothing which is in this case represented as zero. Nothing is zero, so result is zero. But nothing is not zero that I know, mathematically. Zero at least has some value, while nothing has no value. See here: (list) ➜ nil (list 0) ➜ (0) Thus (+) ➜ 0 without value result should not be zero. If no values where given to addition, no addition has taken place. Value of zero should not get out of nothing. Multiplication is repeated addition. Repeated addition of zero can't be 1. (* 2 3) is equal (+ 3 3) ➜ 6 (* 4 3) is equal (+ 3 3 3 3) ➜ 12 How can then (*) ➜ 1 be equal to (+) ➜ 0 no matter how many times you repeat it? Thus this is wrong: (+ (+) (+) (+) (+) (+) (+) (+) (+)) ➜ 0 One thing we learn here, we can finally express mathematical notation very clearly: for example that 2 + 2 = 4 is expressed as following from now on: (+(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 4 We can also easily teach children multiplication table every Christmas: (*(+(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 2 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 3 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 4 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 5 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 6 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 7 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 8 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 9 (*(+(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 10 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 2 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 4 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 6 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 8 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 10 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 12 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 14 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 16 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 18 (*(+(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 20 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 3 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 6 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 9 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 12 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 15 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 18 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 21 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 24 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 27 (*(+(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 30 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 4 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 8 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 12 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 16 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 20 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 24 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 28 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 32 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 36 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 40 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 5 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 10 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 15 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 20 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 25 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 30 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 35 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 40 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 45 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 50 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 6 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 12 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 18 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 24 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 30 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 36 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 42 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 48 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 54 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 60 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 7 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 14 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 21 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 28 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 35 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 42 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 49 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 56 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 63 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 70 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 8 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 16 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 24 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 32 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 40 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 48 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 56 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 64 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 72 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 80 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 9 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 18 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 27 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 36 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 45 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 54 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 63 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 72 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 81 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 90 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*))) ➜ 10 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*))) ➜ 20 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 30 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 40 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 50 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 60 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 70 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 80 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 90 (*(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))(+(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*))) ➜ 100 -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/