From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: wie kann ich Emacs so einstellen, dass ich drucken kann Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 10:24:07 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87pmchea6o.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25322"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 18 08:29:11 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p6o6h-0006OD-1k for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 08:29:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6o6D-00037a-Ha; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 02:28:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6o67-00035O-7J for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 02:28:37 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p6o64-0002m9-Pg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 02:28:34 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.7.182]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055D56.00000000639EC122.0000362D; Sun, 18 Dec 2022 00:28:33 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Michael Heerdegen , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87pmchea6o.fsf@web.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SBL=0.141, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:141850 Archived-At: * Michael Heerdegen [2022-12-18 05:09]: > Drew Adams writes: > > > And trying to learn a language by translating > > as you go is hard, and not necessarily helpful. > > I don't know if I would do anyone a favor when I would try to translate > every Emacs specific term (and there are a lot) literally. I would try > to describe the terms using my own words, but use those own words to > introduce the original English terms. > > That's because I think when you really want to get something out of > Emacs, if you don't want to use it only like Notepad or Nano or those > simplistic editors -- with other words, when you want to use the > commands, the menus, the customize interface and an init file, you have > to know the original terms anyway. IMHO, that is because of habits and environment, you are personally used to English language and that is how it goes in German language. >From personal experience I know that there is tendency in various languages to use one's own national language. Some countries have the habit to translate words into one's own language, for example Croatia, or Hungary, while some countries have rather the habbit to adopt English words, for example Serbia. I can't see practically that one "has to know" English words. We had computer club were teaching numerous people including those from village who had no clues about English language. All of the computer terminology we had it translated to local language, and people could immediately adapt. If people are faced with their own language, they will learn it in that language. There is nothing simpler but learning words in one's own language. It cannot be simpler to learn new words in different language. I was just searching how Italian people call various Emacs terms and I could find here: http://www2.ing.unipi.it/~a008149/corsi/so/materiale/Esercitazioni/E2-Emacs.pdf that they use "Buffer" but for modeline "Barra di stato", instead of "ENTER" in sense of entering information, document uses "" which shows that there is, rather smaller, tendency to translate it to Italian. Judging by TUTORIAL in French the word "Buffer" is translated as "tampon" and I am not so sure if it is correct, French speaker could tell it. Slovenian TUTORIAL, speaks of buffer as »delovno področje« -- which shows tendency to translate it to local language. Emacs hrani besedilo vsake datoteke v takoimenovanem »delovnem področju« (angl. buffer). Ko poiščemo datoteko, Emacs ustvari zanjo novo delovno področje. Vsa obstoječa delovna področja v Emacsu vidimo z ukazom: Some languages have that English and foreign language adoption tendencies while others tend to have it all localized. In my personal programming in Emacs, I do not like using exclusively English as I have to serve people in various languages. Following construct I use instead of plain English strings: (rcd-db-words-get "I am sharing this information with you" language) that means that instead of using plain English string "I am sharing this information with you" I use the function that is to get the translated from from the database in specified LANGUAGE, whatever it may be. People speak various languages, so for people and lists of people, I can designate the communication language: Person "Joe Doe" People type "Individual Person" Communication Language "Italian" Now when I am to share Org heading, file, task, music, anything, there are some pieces of text that are always same like word "Hello" and many others. Those pieces of text get semi-automatically translated. If word is not translated, Emacs will ask me to translate it at the moment of running the function. Next time it will go smoothly. That would be my recommended approach for all mainstream Emacs strings, including Menu strings. Would the interface be translatable to other languages, Emacs would be spread more into other countries and tendencies to use English would be minimized. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/