From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Toggle appointment notification Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2020 20:09:14 +0300 Message-ID: References: <20201201195357.GA17507@tuxteam.de> <87h7p4ky4y.fsf@web.de> <875z5jiroy.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="16610"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: pietru@caramail.com Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 03 18:21:00 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kksHr-0004BU-UO for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 18:21:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52706 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kksHq-0003BW-Va for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:20:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51866) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kks7t-0001qH-DQ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:10:41 -0500 Original-Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:46421) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kks7o-0007Wu-RK for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:10:40 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002C0007.000000005FC91C09.00003C8F; Thu, 03 Dec 2020 17:10:33 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:125898 Archived-At: * pietru@caramail.com [2020-12-03 18:21]: > There are quite some things for elaboration. Could we start with > some areas that concern the agenda. I might not know all aspects, > and there will be things that might already have a solution. In > other instances there could some capability that could be tedious > and some simplification could help us a lot. What would be your > position on this? I see it this way: if anybody is using org-agenda that means that methodology of planning was wrong in th first place. Before 25-30 years I was simply using notebooks, papers and text files in computer and I still have such and I can see nothing changed in my planning until today. Maybe I learned from different foundation. My planning always have objectives or purposes or goals. 1. Objective - task - task - task All tasks have purpose to achieve its senior objective. If senior objective or purpose have been achieved those subordinate tasks become redundant. If there is objective THAT IS action to be solved. There is no need to write everywhere TODO and then search through plethora of files for variety of tasks in the same time. Sorry it makes no sense to me. When person goes to work that person is usually organized or somebody organized the person's work so it is usually quite clear what is to be done, because work is organized in chronological and logical order. What is to be done is already known. Only by lack of organization one has to use software program like org agenda to see what is to be done. If organizational methodology is good in the first place person will know before the day what is next. > Could start with org agenda because people currently use it more and > has more elaborate display. Would it suit you? Here we are quite > comfortable as work goes, but other teams frequently work at tough > sites, making ease of use paramount. System that person focuses on objective and does few things at a time related to objective is more useful. That means thinking from top to bottom. Not from bottom to top. Org mode is already set by methodology and by people insisting on it to drive other people into complex situations. I do believe it solves problems but it solves problems to organize the procrastination. If there is no procrastination then no org-agenda need to search through computer files to find out what is next to be done. People have been handling problems of life organizing before computers and before Org agenda. Its fundamental design is so much fine and nice, but when it comes to organizing things that is sadly one of last tools, there are many good software tools for organizing life, and many CRM programs are way better in doing so. What is meant with bottom-to-top thinking is when users write unrelated notes in vicinity of unrelated tasks inside of unrelated files and file names in vicinity of unrelated directories. That results with mess and further development of Org software with attempt to handle such mess. Then maybe in future they get some kind of idea what is objective for it. Thinking from top-to-bottom would mean to think of objectives. Of objective or purpose or goal is reached, subordinate information becomes redundant. When objectives are faced every day there is no need to mark tasks as TODO and consider the senior objective DONE only when subordinate tasks are marked as DONE. It is the other way around. When senior purpose have been achieved, all subordinate tasks become not important. I wish people would like more into real life situation and design software by how real life works. Software cannot teach people methodology of planning but it can easily drive them into unknown directions so much worse of those well established planning methodologies. And that is what Org mode does. The more users use it the more they get hooked on it and many will procrastinate while enjoying the illusion they are getting organized. Org agenda is summary of mess. It is not summary of organized structure. If one needs to use org agenda to find out what is next, or which meetings are to be done, or whatever like that, it means that organization from top to bottom is not there and person is much confused in life. I agree this may help many people. In last 5 years of using Org I have not almost ever used Org agenda for my planning. I have just tested its function, never required its use. My files are organized by subjects which are ordered by subordinate purposes for which sake subordinate tasks are being executed. Because of this simple methodology from top to bottom there is no need to "search" within agenda, or to ask computer to give agenda list. It is already there in its place in the file, in front of my face. Org mode could sort things way better in general but is not yet so. No wonder people devise their own systems and than train others like SMOS. SMOS - A Comprehensive Self-Management System https://smos.cs-syd.eu/features Much better systems for handling tasks are almost any CRM systems. As every task is related to people, if not other people than oneself. But we do tasks related to other people, and often supervise tasks that other people have to do as assigned by ourselves. While this basic premise is present in all CRM software systems I have encountered it is not in Org mode. 1. Create some action, describe what is to be done. 2. Relate to contact and relate to group or organization. 3. Assign to one person or group of people together. 4. Click to share. Computer should do the necessary repetitive tasks. One should be able to get list of all tasks assigned to other people or related to specific contacts or specific organizations. Both the contacts database and organizations database do not exist in Org mode as foundation for organizing. That is out of my world where I deal with people and groups of people. When I think of actions I think normally first of people or organizations and then what has to be done for them. Users who wish to organize life may spare their efforts by using software well designed for that. There are many choices: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted#project-management Monica - Personal Relationship Manager https://github.com/monicahq/monica Jean