From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Paul Edwards" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: simple editor required Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:19:34 GMT Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054981291 27423 80.91.224.249 (7 Jun 2003 10:21:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 10:21:31 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 07 12:21:29 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19OapE-000782-00 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:21:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OapC-0008Ma-El for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 06:21:26 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news.cse.sc.edu!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 113 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.132.167.28 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@bigpond.net.au Original-X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1054981174 144.132.167.28 (Sat, 07 Jun 2003 20:19:34 EST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 20:19:34 EST Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:114260 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:10754 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:10754 "Eli Zaretskii" wrote in message news:mailman.7519.1054976930.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org... > > From: "Paul Edwards" > > Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help > > Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 03:49:33 GMT > > > > Fundamental mode unfortunately doesn't stay at the right indent > > level. > > > > e.g. If I go > > > > aaaa > > bbb > > ccc > > dddd > > > > I expect that after hitting "enter" after typing "bbb" that I can > > immediately start typing "ccc". On older versions of emacs, > > I used to have "enter" defined as "newline-and-indent" and it > > was all working fine. But on the newer versions I have been > > using, that functionality has been changed. > > Then use indented-text-mode instead of fundamental-mode. You will > still need to type a TAB every now and then to align the beginning of > a new line, but in most cases it should be fine. Yeah, I don't mind that. I just need the continuation from one line with text to the next. > (I suggested fundamental-mode because I thought you wanted to control > the indentation yourself, but now it sounds like you do want some of This is not language-dependent indentation, this is basic text alignment. > the Emacs features I thought were getting in your way. "Simple > editors" don't have auto-indentation, btw.) I don't know that that is true. An editor that doesn't allow you to stay at a particular level is not an editor, it is not suitable for programming in any language. Alignment of text under text is very very basic. I don't mind if the behaviour changes when I break the pattern, but I do mind if the behaviour changes line by line. No programmer has to hit space/tab 20 times at the beginning of every line in order to line up code. > > I looked at the help in emacs and it said that it is (now?) dependent > > on the mode, so I tried switching from fundamental to text mode, > > which did make that work, but introduced different problems (in > > inserting lines full of blanks > > What problems? Details, please. Well the first problem is that only one of the emacses responded to my .emacs requesting the default mode to be text mode. The other remained as fundamental. I would be far more comfortable if either both or neither worked. At the moment I have to conclude that fundamental behaviour is being changed *by default* between versions. I don't care if 1000 new optional things are added between releases, so long as they aren't activated by default. The second problem I encountered was that in the version where text mode actually took effect, was that it inserted spaces instead of leaving the line empty, when I inserted a blank line. I haven't seen emacs do that before, even when it used to work on an older version. But this is perhaps a case of faulty memory. The third problem I encountered was when trying to manually clean up the blanks, ctrl-k would not simply delete the blanks on the line, it would delete the entire line. Someone has suggested putting: (setq kill-whole-line nil) to get around this problem. I didn't have to do that in other versions of emacs, it was the basic standard consistent behaviour. > > And even setting the default mode to text only worked on one > > of the emacs versions, the other one wouldn't accept my default. > > Try indented-text-mode instead. Ok. Thanks. I have several things to try. With a bit of luck that mode will just work straight away. In summary, what I am looking for is: 1. text to be lined up, line by line, suitable for any programming language, no matter what file extension I am using. IIRC, all I needed to do on old emacs versions was inhibit the site file, either via a command-line option or .emacs file, can't remember, either is acceptable, and the junk wouldn't get loaded. 2. Block-marking not to be destroyed by ctrl-f and esc-g. Xemacs 20.4 has a you-beaut highlighting of the block, which is great, but I'd trade it any day for the ability to do a find/goto to position to end of block. Like emacs 20.7.1. And like the last time I used a version of xemacs, IIRC. I don't know why some people think it is appropriate to forget the marker, seems pretty basic to me, but besides, other emacs (like 20.7.1) don't forget the marker. 3. DEL to delete. Just like xemacs 20.4 with appropriate .emacs entry. I consider these to be extremely basic things that should be provided out-of-the-box with all emacs versions without having to create an enormous .emacs file, tailored for every version of emacs, to suppress every quirk that emacs introduces *by default* in every incarnation. I am shocked that the basics don't remain consistent. BFN. Paul.