From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86r13hubaw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <86letphfke.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <86mte3lsj2.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <871qvfoce1.fsf@web.de> <87zgi2tqwt.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87h748a76n.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87tu87s4rx.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35950"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emanuel Berg , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 27 00:23:48 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5afT-0009AE-Q5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Jun 2022 00:23:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53960 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5afS-0002p7-9P for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 18:23:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57476) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5aeo-0002ox-Ka for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 18:23:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:31916) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5aeh-0002pN-7H for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 18:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25QCFImP025707; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:50 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=XoVzI8xsrVcR8QtRlfiGDw65M0TF7jOduTJylcKLRFY=; b=bI5a5pHb7JdYQ84GATtBqLUqSmNNU/rZhQElmws4MR5jrzYtP/rRr4lbH5E/jcJCJOA2 M9Ond3NLGPsqB1RIoDEPMfK4ArPafYlrUlvCSjGEsUxdhjLzlYwNENcRNNzk/oDArI3J G/eo4aT/z3UiTWSUNAr+0fBXyX39rryWQQb4T61dlfsKi4UDL8zm8NeFKIfrBJ0Erxzv sPzgMygCUL76yKJ7mpHRVZIdWna6ZiUTzco/vnIyagF1y7IxmpF0RKKtdIz1GJ4ZEezD 0FXMDHl55UVpHVdaLVKbYQVDvxpjNkyvYqi1A1YntXMFCkILVRLopgKO7V+iTSel7+Hh +w== Original-Received: from iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.100.223]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3gwtwu1s7v-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:50 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 25QMKmBF040386; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:49 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-bn7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10lp2109.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.70.109]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com with ESMTP id 3gwrt6ttxf-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:49 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=k+2LeYOqAxVHZGjBS2+0fOgev2oUbXNJDBjaHRqZlvdATDTi6CX35WZg7XPzpezRXB6TIX13OmHL1/gyLxcLMzGdCKJXiUs/rx2q+cVlGuvlENsk8WnR9zUFQ6SM5+z8eak8lw2nWE4N/mKQBRA3J68lCpalzyZeKtynvjqxhmP4S9EicUFLf53q8odNJHoq8/VKMq91zDaFre1FI2KC3EnZq0G+4QkO4PG3C/JUMMsaGmyxOqiXzWDhKq5VgiWOPzGC6HQzA+SSaiNQlQlwO3/7GSfSjc2c1ND9NDjbkiAO39fCCsj4TRySmcWOAxaBoqDtZ5siQxKUYFY7RQmWqg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=XoVzI8xsrVcR8QtRlfiGDw65M0TF7jOduTJylcKLRFY=; b=atZO8UE/2EjvHXBxmZevyXJzc/9bsAGQuJbjCleHI5umhMPZ549dt3JsRcvelKd9GMYJcGJl++UWV8XutcsRr8LQ+e3YXgx6WUxRCq5KloKvVZmCmiXNxJLQ+1owBC/hA5JY6N/4C9ZnddmSeLCIG8DDlkMdsR12Ld3CqTMByS8Ch3TUdPGimqFlN4bfq/InFDGSUs1I+k2cyFJrv1LTO38OIkYd1eNcs7tZEGMaatHjXurstx9agUdywY9YyPfgQgOt8BOdp2/Iu7NVPwRWCSU9bcNLc5fZzimhNLud/uzZInFxCT3uI9TcfGt+fNfXDtyh0PjicinHrQRhAdg+aQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=XoVzI8xsrVcR8QtRlfiGDw65M0TF7jOduTJylcKLRFY=; b=r+FFn4EIbWGTYgXcp9W4qSqb/tQjQ2CDxAe17lBW2qJDRLPJ/UbndGeuOupqM+AOSLIvL1Z70zTqIdPUeFXGALfzSvDHK/xzTvTslyWNhuuitP0lcrBqk+ZKQLC/pdb7C5+tSR7HPSs1+HDCfZx7H60bcDoNe5ui9+n0T3oXolM= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by BN7PR10MB2755.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:406:cb::28) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5373.18; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:47 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::581b:ae2f:16b9:80fb]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::581b:ae2f:16b9:80fb%6]) with mapi id 15.20.5373.018; Sun, 26 Jun 2022 22:22:46 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input Thread-Index: AQHYiYRIwrFbkQByck+GIdNfQQkUfa1iDnpw In-Reply-To: <87tu87s4rx.fsf@dataswamp.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 59db5be4-b7c0-4f0a-fa92-08da57c2654e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BN7PR10MB2755:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 vnuq+Pcq74BtbToyTDmp6FrMgy5osLtNwf4ZdRGoMMr+e0V/Um3UhmNlw9RRI/rBpkYpqcJgV9PG9eYHA8cw7nj0Q== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230016)(376002)(39860400002)(396003)(346002)(366004)(136003)(186003)(7696005)(41300700001)(8676002)(6506007)(26005)(38070700005)(9686003)(8936002)(55016003)(38100700002)(33656002)(44832011)(52536014)(966005)(2906002)(478600001)(71200400001)(86362001)(5660300002)(66946007)(122000001)(316002)(66556008)(66476007)(110136005)(76116006)(66446008)(64756008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?V5Iybr2x5ZiUOLZRS6Z7pvMn8AB5edFWuIdYv4x8Gt9NX29VIswV1PaGfe5G?= =?us-ascii?Q?k6o1FgfxN+sOFpveTA4R4/tJtUbEa/B4585VebNoGYPk+jFCZLJkTvf6nEK/?= =?us-ascii?Q?f4RcWbOQdRvPgbjWWFDAKpl2BcZayhY7iLtVqYzBMVFDv+HNJ0N+8VXchCAP?= =?us-ascii?Q?qEM0TBc92drf97Ok+viTgf9NVsE0yDoqmxDqLXiW/B5O365K2uz0SnNl5c14?= =?us-ascii?Q?VG8xuRC4aPQZSFdwNBmV0i00B6JZFS0rCvgRQYrLGCwtj4Jrx181MNXlf8vp?= =?us-ascii?Q?8ykhxgNTkdVJ6mCUp5UhEA09ZEQicbioKIsuSzKiY649MzhhHsrsumMaaEDW?= =?us-ascii?Q?rotFX4PNboK+5ormoFPT29j7TphWTiHhVZj2PKUkc6ZT3jbIQkrNIQrqe/50?= =?us-ascii?Q?EoYPlNxF8//N191ROC5ajsSA2nTLgSPAjufs6RpRZAkpA2ONLVmpoNubJWOH?= =?us-ascii?Q?3B8kRmjti259g9R2dDRb1evolCApM79s4uE1q2lVrbHeteuL2+TkYMP+euU0?= =?us-ascii?Q?XDddKYULE4exURk3ZtDZfwNezRvz2nwwunYwjdnztPPSsQXvebFKXXN2p9RO?= =?us-ascii?Q?aYi6wduXk0e6l9kZFX7hpmG+rEQjBCMOB6GCdcFI8mIUUlK3m/kjeFnxmFEn?= =?us-ascii?Q?t5 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 59db5be4-b7c0-4f0a-fa92-08da57c2654e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 26 Jun 2022 22:22:46.1136 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fkirtdP6Yceloo17dBUj7ngRioombHqezCfisnOLn5MeS5b2gR+wsgwQ+wPxxtHswgr/F1heNeu4B3tTh1Be+A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN7PR10MB2755 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-26_09:2022-06-24, 2022-06-26 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=852 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206260091 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: mkuaMij7y6__TkUVP5f13_HpsTfm88tl X-Proofpoint-GUID: mkuaMij7y6__TkUVP5f13_HpsTfm88tl Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.165.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:138113 Archived-At: > >>> Automatic insertion of the default value > >>> can be useful and preferred by some users. > >>> Let users choose. > >> Make that an option > > I detailed just such an option. >=20 > But then you'd need initial-input even less? I've already explained that a default value is something different from an initial-input value - they have different behavior and thus different uses - and why that remains true even if someone chooses to automatically insert the default value. And I posted some of the doc, which makes clear that the option values that insert the default value do so only when the INIT-VALUE is a no-op: When [the option] is non-nil and non-t, and the initial-input argument is nil or "",=20 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=20 the default value can be inserted into the minibuffer as the initial input. E.g., if you set the option to `insert-end' then the default value is inserted (with point after it) *ONLY IF* there's no INIT-VALUE to insert. This inserts the default value, `jjj': (completing-read "q: " '(aaa bbb ccc ddd) nil nil "" nil "jjj") ^ ^ init default But if there's an INIT-VALUE then it's inserted. This inserts `iii': (completing-read "q: " '(aaa bbb ccc ddd) nil nil "iii" nil "jjj") ^ ^ init default ___ [I also suggested it might be useful to give users some general control over the INIT-VALUE. Icicles hasn't done that - it just adds user control of the default value. For INIT-VALUE Icicles just respects the vanilla behavior. You know - the arg that Emacs itself claims is deprecated? Icicles respects that one, as is.] ___ https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles_-_Customization_and_General_Tips#ic= icle-default-value