From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: "'Help-Gnu-Emacs (help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org)'" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: Iteration macros (was: [External] : Re: Closures - do you understand them well?)
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 20:38:59 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB548847985D3FFB8C425E7199F31F9@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvo7sbno66.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
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> > But it's also the case that for a _user_ the syntax
> > of `(cl-)loop' is complex - certainly much more
> > complex than the usual Lisp syntax. You essentially
> > have to learn another language - `loop' - to use it.
>
> That's what I meant, actually, yes.
>
> I'm not opposed to introducing specialized sublanguages (after all, I've
> done that myself for `pcase`, `setf`, and `bindat`, and I'm not opposed
> to things like `rx` or `peg`), but I think what annoys me in `cl-loop`
> is that you cannot understand each subelement independently because the
> effect of each element often depends on the presence/absence of other
> elements or the place where it appears, ...: it's not just a separate
> language but that language is not modular (and hence in my view is a bad
> language design).
100% agreement.
> Shiver's [Anatomy of a Loop](
> https://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/papers/loop.pdf) is much
> better in this respect, but I'm still not a big fan because for example
> (bind <bindings>) changes the environment of *subsequent* expressions,
> which I find ugly (admittedly, he does that in Scheme where `define`
> already suffers from the same problem).
Thanks for that; wasn't familiar with it.
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-12-10 20:38 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 86+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-12-08 15:36 Closures - do you understand them well? Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 16:24 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-12-08 17:30 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 17:56 ` Drew Adams
2022-12-08 18:00 ` Drew Adams
2022-12-08 18:49 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 19:35 ` Drew Adams
2022-12-10 4:51 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-08 19:45 ` Drew Adams
2022-12-08 19:06 ` Tassilo Horn
2022-12-08 19:53 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 20:01 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-12-08 20:49 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 22:00 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-12-08 22:25 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-12-08 22:51 ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-12-10 2:34 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 5:03 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2022-12-10 2:35 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 2:29 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 16:56 ` Drew Adams
2022-12-15 8:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 4:49 ` tomas
2022-12-09 19:40 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-09 19:50 ` tomas
2022-12-09 20:55 ` Tassilo Horn
2022-12-09 21:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-09 21:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 21:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 11:40 ` tomas
2022-12-12 1:18 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-12 5:16 ` tomas
2022-12-12 6:09 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-01-18 12:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-01-19 13:21 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-01-27 20:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-01-28 0:44 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-02-26 12:45 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-02-27 8:33 ` tomas
2023-02-28 10:13 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-03-01 20:42 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-03-03 12:09 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-03-02 11:08 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-03-02 18:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-03-02 20:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-03-03 6:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-03 12:19 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-03-02 18:37 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-03-02 18:50 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-01-18 12:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-22 4:00 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-23 6:27 ` tomas
2023-01-18 12:23 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 4:46 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 0:12 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-10 9:34 ` Tassilo Horn
2022-12-10 10:02 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 16:28 ` Mutation - do you understand it really? (was: Closures - do you understand them well?) Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-12-10 18:29 ` Mutation - do you understand it really? Michael Heerdegen
2023-01-18 10:58 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-01-19 13:59 ` Michael Heerdegen
2023-01-19 17:47 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-12-11 2:24 ` Closures - do you understand them well? Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-11 9:13 ` Tassilo Horn
2022-12-10 2:26 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-10 17:20 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-12-10 18:02 ` Iteration macros (was: [External] : Re: Closures - do you understand them well?) Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-12-10 20:38 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2023-01-18 11:10 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-01-18 11:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-21 23:53 ` [External] : Re: Closures - do you understand them well? Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 3:43 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 4:01 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-09 4:38 ` tomas
2022-12-09 5:37 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 16:55 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-10 4:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-08 19:44 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-12-08 20:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-08 20:53 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-08 23:25 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-09 16:50 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2022-12-09 18:48 ` Emanuel Berg
2022-12-09 19:25 ` Michael Heerdegen
2022-12-11 18:42 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2023-01-18 12:08 ` Emanuel Berg
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