Re: use-package :after ??

[David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com>]

Wow, i need to proofread more...

David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Eli,
>
> I'm still confused about where the problem is, but I'll try to explain.
>
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> From: David Masterson <dsmasterson@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, 07 May 2023 17:05:57 -0700
>>> 
>>> This might be a documentation problem...
>
> I have a fairly lengthy .emacs (probably nowhere near as complex as
> yours) that I've setup use-package to speed up starting Emacs.  I've
> (mostly) alphabetized my packages and use-package them in sequence.
> I've set to deferred loading and I'm using :after to get subpackages to
> load when the main package loads (ie: org-ac <- org).
>
> My current problem is that org-ac is not loading after first using org
> even though I've added the :after flag on org-ac.  If I hand load og-ac,
> everthing is fine.
>
>>> I'm not sure I understand ":after" (and a few other related things) in
>>> use-package.  The info docs talk about it ensuring that the current
>>> package is loaded after the other listed packages, but it's not quite
>>> explicit (to me) about what that means.  I interpret it in two possible
>>> ways:
>
> The key section is 3.5 in use-package infodoc.
>
>>> 1. If any of the listed packages are not loaded currently, then the
>>> current package will not be loaded. Period.
>>> 2. #1 + "magic" will be done to ensure that, once the listed packages
>>> are loaded, the current package will be (auto?) loaded.
>>
>> Which parts of the documentation make the answer to this question less
>> than obvious?  There should be no need to expand the use-package
>> macros to understand what it is doing; just reading the documentation
>> should be enough (and it is for me, FWIW).
>
> Section 3.1 talks about load and autoload, but could be extended to talk
> about how use-package uses autoload to make things happen -- at least by
> mentioning what use-package things (like :con fig) will happen at
> autoload versus when the use-package is called.
>
> In section 3.5, the first sentence talks about "configure", but
> shouldn't it really be "load and configure"?  Also, the example is not
> really good because it says that "':after' is not strictly necessary"
> in this case.  Better to reverse it (put ivy-avy first) and say what
> will happen in both the demand and deferred cases (I don't use it, but
> I guess this should also be done in 3.4 and 3.6).
>
>>> My goal is to organize my .emacs loading of 25+ packages to only load if
>>> needed.  That means (almost) all packages are deferred at startup and
>>> will load itself and subpackages (minor modes, etc.) when I try to call
>>> the package.  This is what I hoped :after was for.
>>
>> AFAIU, :after is not about deferral, it's about the conditions to
>> load.  use-package has other features for deferral, like :defer and
>> use-package-always-defer.
>>
>> And for loading when needed you have autoloads, of course.
>
> Yes, :after is about when to load.  I'm looking to figure out why org-ac
> didn't load when I needed it for org. I need more time to play with it.
>
>>> Can someone advise on the proper use of ":after" and how to get
>>> appropriate subpackages to also load when the main package is loaded.
>>> For instance:
>>> 
>>> (use-package org-ac :after org)
>>> (use-package org)
>>
>> What is unclear or not self-evident about the above?
>
> From the macroexpand, I now understand some of the "magic" of autoload.
> I'm still missing how the :config (etc.) happens after the autoload to
> ensure that the package is configured.  That's important in helping me
> look for side-effects in the :config that didn't work with autoload
> (ie. maybe I need :demand somewhere).

One thing I left out was that org-ac also depends on auto-complete-pcmp
making the :after more complicated -- namely does order make a
difference in how things should be loaded? 

-- 
David Masterson