From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: gebser@speakeasy.net Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Mode for Manuscripts? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:46:15 -0500 (EST) Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87hdzz18f0.fsf@emptyhost.emptydomain.de> Reply-To: gebser@speakeasy.net NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1071751803 5458 80.91.224.253 (18 Dec 2003 12:50:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:50:03 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 18 13:49:57 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AWxbJ-0002QG-01 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:49:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AWyVz-0000YE-HZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:48:31 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AWyVm-0000Xy-5L for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:48:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AWyVE-0000Uj-VJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:48:16 -0500 Original-Received: from [216.254.0.205] (helo=mail5.speakeasy.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.24) id 1AWyVE-0000Ue-DT for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 08:47:44 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 8937 invoked from network); 18 Dec 2003 12:46:16 -0000 Original-Received: from dsl093-011-017.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net (HELO heidegger.mousecar.net) ([66.93.11.17]) (envelope-sender ) by mail5.speakeasy.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for ; 18 Dec 2003 12:46:16 -0000 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87hdzz18f0.fsf@emptyhost.emptydomain.de> X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:15414 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:15414 At 20:44 (UTC-0000) on Wed, 17 Dec 2003 Kai Grossjohann said: = gebser@speakeasy.net writes: = = > Sure.... = = Maybe you could play with format-alist to frob the file contents on = the way from file to Emacs and back. That way, you wouldn't see the = double newlines, but they'd be in the file. I think you're saying that the formatting of the text would change between disk and buffer. This is an acceptable hack and seems to be the most promising (most easily implementable) way to go about this. Because I'd use paragraph-indent-mode after the file's first ~30 words, format-alist shouldn't have a difficult time understanding what the file is supposed to be. = = In order to see double newlines, I would if it might work to use = something similar to font-lock to place overlays on every newline with = a before-string or after-string property containing one or two = newlines. I never tried, so I don't know if it works. I've used font-lock, but never poked around in the code for it. Doing that for this sort of file format would get pretty tricky-- at least for an elisp neophyte like myself. But it sounds-- on the face of it-- like it would address the issue at the level of coding where it should be addressed-- at least insofar as emacs can address it. = Hm. I guess it would be really difficult to change Emacs in such a = way that M-q and friends and auto-fill do what you want for = double-spaced files. I've done enough C to say that writing the code to do the work of fill-region in double-line-spacing wouldn't be too hard at all. Unfortunately, the C code for such a function would be worthless for emacs (yes?). Getting the double-line-spaced text to snake down and up the page as editing added and deleted text would involve essentially the same code, but invoked after every text-insertion and -deletion. Still not a huge mountain to climb-- but still useless to emacs if done in C (or so I'm guessing). = Hm. Isn't there a way to tweak the distance between baselines in = Emacs? That would enable people to have the look of double-space = without actually having two consecutive newlines in the buffer. Then = format-alist could add the newlines to the files. Poking around in the code, I found a variable for this, called dbl-space, But this is a non-solution. Simply having the text look like it's double-line-spaced would be of no use. Once completed, the manuscript file would either be printed and snail-mailed or directly emailed to an editor (the human kind). This ultimate destination is where the formatting actually matters. And in either case, the line spacing would be lost in the transition. Kai, Thanks much for your reply and suggestions. I hope that, despite the difficulties, it's still possible to make something come of all this. Regards, ken