From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Paul Edwards" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: simple editor required Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 03:43:43 GMT Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <1K1Da.3886$7E.44637@news-server.bigpond.net.au><84of1c78ka.fsf@lucy.is.informatik.uni-duisburg.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1054957523 27063 80.91.224.249 (7 Jun 2003 03:45:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 03:45:23 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 07 05:45:19 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19OUdq-00071j-00 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2003 05:45:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19OUeN-0004l0-Im for gnu-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2003 23:45:51 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!xmission!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!news-in.superfeed.net!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 78 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.132.167.28 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@bigpond.net.au Original-X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1054957423 144.132.167.28 (Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:43:43 EST) Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2003 13:43:43 EST Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:114252 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+gnu-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:10746 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:10746 "Harry Putnam" wrote in message news:mailman.7492.1054922593.21513.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org... > "Paul Edwards" writes: > > > Particularly frustrating is when something like the "del" key > > doesn't do what I expect (not just what I expect, but what other > > versions of emacs do when the appropriate command is > > given). As I turn up to a new job, don't know how to use vi, > > and it appears that I don't even know how to delete a character. > > If I have micro-emacs (or emacs was consistent between > > versions so my .emacs did the right thing), it wouldn't be a > > problem. > > Sounds like you need to bone up on vi before you go much further with > your employment quests. An employer expecting you to know vi isn't > asking a terrible lot after all. I can touch-type and I can write code with blinding productivity, almost automatically. I do not like having my prowess limited by stupid editors that are incapable of doing basic things like displaying an "a" if I press the "a" key. Thus I hate "vi" with a passion. microemacs is what I use at home, and emacs comes close enough to emulating that. > Or expecting an employee to know about basic OS stuff like setting > the erase character in shell.. really isn't asking a terrible lot > either. Wrong delete key. The "DEL" key is being interpreted by emacs as erase-backward-character instead of erasing the current character. At least on one of my emacs. On the other emacs, the .emacs file causes emacs to behave as expected. > Both are very basic tools of the trade. If you can't or won't learn > them you probably need a different trade. I know enough of vi to hold my nose for long enough to add emacs to my .profile and switch to an editor that displays an "a" when I press the "a" key. > Not to be snotty but your > post comes off like a cry baby who can't do his job. :-) If you have any concerns about my ability to do my job, extremely productively, it is only because you've never been my employer. > A couple of evenings spent with a vi tutorial will get you lined out. > Then start worrying about customizing emacs or changing defaults. Do you actually touch-type? Ever seen a skilled programmer who can touch-type at 60wpm in action? The keystrokes are very important, they are memorized, they are automatic. I expect ctrl-e to erase the contents of the line, not the entire line, and thus I automatically expect two ctrl-es to be required to erase the line. I need to concentrate on the work I am doing, the fingers do the keystrokes by themselves. Anything else damages my productivity. I sell my productivity. > Many basic unix books have vi sections. So does the man page. I already know it sux. I use emacs because it is widely-installed. I don't actually care what the keystrokes are, so long as I only have to remember one. Just the same as I don't care if it is a QWERTY or (can't remember alternative) keyboard, so long as I only have to know one. The choice of keyboard was made a long time ago. The choice of a flavour of emacs was made circa 1985, on someone else's recommendation (widely-available, multi-platform). I just can't believe the basics keep changing on me, by default. I've struggled with emacs "bugs"/"design flaws" for probably a decade, there's always something that pops up to interfere with the basics, e.g. having to press ctrl-d instead of DEL. It breaks the rhythm and really sux. Doesn't suck as much as vi though. BFN. Paul.