From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: goncholden Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: no to war in Ukraine Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2022 14:02:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <87ee3p17tx.fsf@zoho.eu> <87zgmauhq3.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <875yoyymr8.fsf@zoho.eu> <87k0ddvofo.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <878rttvmtt.fsf@mat.ucm.es> Reply-To: goncholden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29610"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Uwe Brauer Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 01 15:24:45 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nP3Qj-0007Xe-AV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 15:24:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47832 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nP3Qi-0003sG-Ad for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:24:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35126) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nP353-0006ME-FW for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:02:21 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4319.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.19]:58719) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nP351-0003Oy-5g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Mar 2022 09:02:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1646143336; bh=zP+16v1Ys+/tzYGQ/u2Dz0hw5juRXIPwXSzUTcMWnwE=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Reply-To:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To: References:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID; b=p72McdnTKE1RIr8bzFyGBdV40upmd7Q5mq58tIP7YPtfR2Z2lAsYCc/By3+wo5szi jNf5AefxVpJqijI1j8SjX9tkHI9UXpLx725CjuPgTm7AaEwN1nnDbu7mhEFD0R9dP3 4as1JMb6RG2+ELF7OeRrsH1bAb4FLzR/jyxF0ix0Lw05nhTocAKfGiRS+B/Mqm+KSp ScLHspsp48aWJaQaDN9exBMKWslBloj78b7egnl/6i5+0u7TwWpFNuxLCxI/KGRqh+ lE8bccT3vwJoJeZSHA0+qLD6+24xjR3pEayfAxWf0/qH/CciMcOKhl65T1OaWPENea hK9ZE3ukYdvxA== In-Reply-To: <878rttvmtt.fsf@mat.ucm.es> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.19; envelope-from=goncholden@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4319.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:136310 Archived-At: ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, March 2nd, 2022 at 1:12 AM, Uwe Brauer wrote= : > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email. > > ------- Original Message ------- > > On Wednesday, March 2nd, 2022 at 12:37 AM, Uwe Brauer oub@mat.ucm.es wr= ote: > > Many russians I know simply go on with their business without angering > > the state. Like many of us here not wanting to anger our employers. > > Putin just organised it to a disastrous result. > Yes, I can only imagine and I also know that for me it is very easy > sitting 4000 km away from the problem and making comments. Am not criticising you. Just stating how things are. One can make comment= s and have all the good intentions in the world. I just find westerners naiv= e. As is saying that peace will be established in exchange for conceding some territories - also naive. Ukraine held a third of nuclear weapons and many bombers - and gave them all up thinking that such actions would ensure its future security. Nations that sacrifice their nuclear deterrents in exchange for promises of international goodwill are often signing their own death warrants. In a wor= ld bristling with weapons with the potential to end human civilization, nonpro= liferation itself is a morally worthwhile and even necessary goal. But the experience = of countries that actually have disarmed is likely to lead more of them to con= clude otherwise in future.