From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Bhagat, Nirav" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Help-gnu-emacs Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:53:05 -0500 Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1068573945 10390 80.91.224.253 (11 Nov 2003 18:05:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:05:45 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 11 19:05:40 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AJctX-0004EB-00 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 19:05:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdmL-0005q1-OW for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:02:17 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdj8-0005RJ-P1 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:58:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdh9-0004ye-SM for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:57:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.244.214.30] (helo=kdcnt4ims02.kdc.capitalone.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AJdeq-0004eY-Dk for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:54:32 -0500 Original-Received: by kdcnt4ims02.kdc.capitalone.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:53:07 -0500 Original-To: "'help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org'" X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:14073 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:14073 help -----Original Message----- From: help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org [mailto:help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 1:49 PM To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Subject: Help-gnu-emacs Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 Send Help-gnu-emacs mailing list submissions to help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to help-gnu-emacs-request@gnu.org You can reach the person managing the list at help-gnu-emacs-owner@gnu.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Help-gnu-emacs digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file (Eli Zaretskii) 2. Re: make mouse click work in info? (Eli Zaretskii) 3. Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file (Stefan Monnier) 4. Re: Q: Configuring Tramp on WinNT (Peter Lee) 5. Re: cc-mode: Reverting to the 'dumber' indentation of nested function calls, as seen in Emacs20 (ERDI Gergo) 6. Re: EDB date display dies in 21.3 (ChipsChap) 7. Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file (Burton Samograd) 8. Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file (Burton Samograd) 9. Re: How to convert .doc to txt (Burton Samograd) 10. Re: w3 under development or not? ( Bj?rn Lindstr?m ) 11. Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file (Thien-Thi Nguyen) 12. Re: Extending Emacs with C (Khuong D Pham) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: 11 Nov 2003 17:39:51 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: > From: Alan Mackenzie > Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:43:35 +0000 > > You've got it ;-) > Some of us actually have to pay for our electricity. Some of us care > that leaving a computer running continuously spews carbon dioxide into > the atmosphere (fuelling global warming) and creates radioactive > waste. Power-saving settings, which can switch off almost everything during idle time without requiring a reboot, were invented for this. > But I don't like leaving Emacs running, even when my PC is on. You > see, jit-lock runs continuously in the background, consuming vast > amounts of CPU usage, thus contributing even more to global warming, > et al. JIT-lock only eats up cycles as long as there are buffers that aren't completely fontified; then it stops. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: 11 Nov 2003 17:47:57 +0200 From: Eli Zaretskii Subject: Re: make mouse click work in info? To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: > From: nospam@none.com > Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 06:52:42 +0000 (UTC) > > Hi, how do I configure Info so that when I click on a link topic with > the left mouse button, it will go to that topic? I can jump to the > topic by press enter, but mouse click does not work. It will work if you click the right button (a.k.a. "mouse-2"). ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:52:48 GMT From: Stefan Monnier Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Some of us actually have to pay for our electricity. Some of us care > that leaving a computer running continuously spews carbon dioxide into > the atmosphere (fuelling global warming) and creates radioactive > waste. We switch our computers off when not in use. I often boot my > computer several times a day. Why not `suspend' it ? [ Incidentally: does anybody here have experience configuring a Linux desktop machine to behave "a bit like a laptop" and turn off its drive when not used, ... This is not only to save power but to save my ears as well. ] > But I don't like leaving Emacs running, even when my PC is on. You > see, jit-lock runs continuously in the background, consuming vast > amounts of CPU usage, thus contributing even more to global warming, > et al. Not continuously: only until it's all been re-font-lock'd. And if you don't like it, you can turn off the background jit-locking by setting jit-lock-stealth-time to nil. Stefan ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:11:17 GMT From: Peter Lee Subject: Re: Q: Configuring Tramp on WinNT To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> Jack Saba writes: Jack> in the .emacs file, but was not able to come up with a Jack> combination of parameters that worked. I have the following in my .emacs : (require 'tramp) (add-to-list 'tramp-methods '("plink2" (tramp-connection-function tramp-open-connection-rsh) (tramp-login-program "plink") (tramp-copy-program nil) (tramp-remote-sh "/bin/sh") (tramp-login-args ("-2" "-ssh")) (tramp-copy-args nil) (tramp-copy-keep-date-arg nil) (tramp-password-end-of-line "xy"))) (setq tramp-default-method "plink2") This allows me to 'C-x d /user@host:/home/user RET' and get a directory listing. I can browse and copy files (text only) with no problem. However, if I try to open a remote shell (using plink) from eshell I run into the same problems as you. Basically I've just been using a seperate cmd (or cygwin) window for that purpose. Just some more info that may help... if you solve the eshell problem please post your solution. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:30:37 +0100 (CET) From: ERDI Gergo Subject: Re: cc-mode: Reverting to the 'dumber' indentation of nested function calls, as seen in Emacs20 To: Kevin Rodgers , Message-ID: Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Kevin Rodgers wrote: > ERDI Gergo wrote: > > > So, who's inserting all those '$'s and how do I get rid of it? > > Did you follow the instructions in the Interactive Customization > section of the CC Mode manual? Yes, but like I said, I still have no idea where the 'smart' indentation comes from. C-c C-s in the second line tells me it's in arglist-intro, but the value of arglist-intro only determines the '#' in the above example, and not the '$' part. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: 11 Nov 2003 16:45:28 GMT From: ChipsChap Subject: Re: EDB date display dies in 21.3 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <87ekweam7b.fsf@linux.chungkuo.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jesper Harder writes: > The problem is that EDB defines its own date functions in the global > name space (i.e. without a proper package prefix). This is bound to > break sooner or later. The solution would be to go through EDB and > replace them with the built-in Emacs date & time functions. This turns out to be not *quite* the problem I encountered (although it's surely a problem) but I will discuss that in the other newsgroup, as you suggest below. > NB: Please use gnu.emacs.sources for source code _only_. Questions > and discussion should go to gnu.emacs.help. Point noted and will do. However, I think it is appropriate to post a patch in this newsgroup and here is something that seems to work for the problem at hand, as opposed to a total, global solution. I also decided to get rid of a small Y2K problem at the same time. It is a patch to the EDB file db-time.el, and someone please inform me by e-mail if this is not the proper format for patches: ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;begin patch to db-time.el 57,58c57,59 < "Extract the year and return it modulo 1900." < (% (date-year date) 1900)) --- > "Extract the year and return it with the right two digits. > Makes no sense for years in early 1900s or late 2000s." > (% (date-year date) 100)) 443c444 < ("d" . ((date-day date) . (date-day date))) --- > ("d" . ((date-day date) . (format "%d" (date-day date)))) 447,448c448,449 < ("m" . ((date-month date) . (date-month date))) < ("year" . ((date-year date) . (date-year-long date))) --- > ("m" . ((date-month date) . (format "%d" (date-month date)))) > ("year" . ((date-year date) . (format "%d" (date-year-long date)))) ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; end patch to db-time.el ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:00:06 GMT From: Burton Samograd Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <87ekwedgcb.fsf@kruhft.vc.shawcable.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Alan Mackenzie writes: > Burton Samograd wrote on Mon, 10 Nov 2003 > 21:00:03 > GMT: >> Stefan Monnier writes: > >>> I still haven't heard from a Lisp hacker who found it difficult to >>> switch to C or Java (painful, yes of course, but not difficult, >>> except maybe for manual memory management), so I'd say that Lisp's >>> rut is rather shallow indeed. > >> From my experience, switching to lisp is a bit more work than the >> other way around, due to the type of people that helped shape lisp in >> the first place. C and UNIX were developed around the "worse is >> better" type philosophy, where LISPy systems were more focused on the >> consistent and perfect side. > > All due respect, and everything, but the above is incoherent nonsense. > "Worse is better"? What's that supposed to mean? "..due to the type > of people that helped shape lisp"? That seems disparaging. What have > personalities got to do with the difficulties of learning a new > programing language? Another poster replied as to what "Worse is better" was refering to. Just because you haven't heard of something doesn't make it nonsense. As a hint, when you're wondering what something is supposed to mean, rather than do an instant-flame, try googling. Also, try hanging out in comp.lang.lisp for a while where you'll get to hear discussions and talk with the people that helped form the CL standard. There are some very smart people that have some very good reasons for why things are the way they are in the lisp world and their personalities have *a lot* to do with it. They have a knowledge base of many years of experience that they have incorporated into the Lisp standard, and it takes almost as long to learn all the nuances. This is part of the difficulty where people that are new to something find it different to what they are used to so they feel a need to change it to something more like what they are comfortable with rather than learning why it was done that way in the first place. > > [ .... ] > >> For the ones that want to attack the LISP learning curve there are >> plenty of resources available from the existing LISP community, but >> don't expect much help if you dive in and start telling them their >> language should be changed because you "don't get it". LISP is great >> and LISP is fun, but it's still a programming language, but much more >> akin to a sketchbook than a paintroller. > > A "pain troller". What a strange concept! Such posters are, > thankfully, not common on gnu.emacs.help, but they are regretfully > abundant elsewhere on Usenet. :-( That's "paint roller"; sorry for missing a space. I figured that most posters like yours were a bit less abundant in these groups...I was just sharing my thoughts on a programming language. -- burton samograd http://kruhftwerk.dyndns.org ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:00:07 GMT From: Burton Samograd Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <87ad72dg53.fsf@kruhft.vc.shawcable.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jesper Harder writes: > Alan Mackenzie writes: >> All due respect, and everything, but the above is incoherent >> nonsense. "Worse is better"? What's that supposed to mean? > > It's an expression coined by Richard P. Gabriel (a Lisp hacker) while > trying to explain why C and Unix became so popular even though they > (in his view) were technically inferior to The Right Thing, i.e. Lisp. > > See > > > > for more details. Thanks for the clarification; I thought that paper was more widely known. Although the wording of the sentance is a bit inflammitory without reference, I happen to find that it's closer to the way the world works than being technically perfect (better translated as academic). In the end I'm still using a "worse" UNIX based OS, while the LISP machines have faded into history (although many of the ideas still live on inside of emacs). -- burton samograd http://kruhftwerk.dyndns.org ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 17:00:08 GMT From: Burton Samograd Subject: Re: How to convert .doc to txt To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <8765hqdg36.fsf@kruhft.vc.shawcable.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Don Saklad writes: > In rmail in emacs, how do you convert .doc to txt ?... Antiword gives good results: http://www.winfield.demon.nl/ -- burton samograd http://kruhftwerk.dyndns.org ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:16:51 +0100 From: bkhl@elektrubadur.se ( Bj?rn Lindstr?m ) Subject: Re: w3 under development or not? To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <878ymm6d18.fsf@lucien.dreaming> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Joe Corneli writes: > Anyone working on w3 stuff? That's a very good question. > Like > > * not causing emacs to hang while looking for a server That's a problem with Emacs not being multi-threaded, rather than w3. You can expect this kind of behaviour to disappear some time after Emacs has finally been ported to Guile. -- Björn Lindström http://bkhl.elektrubadur.se/ ICQ: 82945879 ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: 11 Nov 2003 18:35:36 +0100 From: Thien-Thi Nguyen Subject: Re: Cool and Useful LISP for the .emacs file To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: <7ek766dd07.fsf@ada2.unipv.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stefan Monnier writes: > [ Incidentally: does anybody here have experience configuring a Linux > desktop machine to behave "a bit like a laptop" and turn off its drive > when not used, ... > This is not only to save power but to save my ears as well. ] check out the openbrick and similar small-form-factor systems. i'm happy to use the one here to work on emacs, guile, etc., even though it's only 300MHz. it is more silent than the ambiant noise and much more silent than the dude twiddling the guitar waiting for the compile to finish... otherwise, if you have an IDE drive try "hdparam -S 1 /dev/hda". thi ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 18:47:33 +0100 From: "Khuong D Pham" Subject: Re: Extending Emacs with C To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Message-ID: How did you compile emacs with msvc6. I have tried it without success I get this when I run nmake after execute configure.bat: makefile (25): fatal error U1035: syntax error : expected ':' or '=' separator "Siegfried Heintze" wrote in message news:3fb08926$1@news.seqnet.net... > I just compiled emacs on Win2000 using cl v12 (aka MSVC6). Hurray. Too > bad it it does not link when using the latest Microsoft C compiler (v > 13.1). Good thing I kept v12 around. > > Are there any documents that can guide me on extending emacs (elisp) > with C? > I want to call some COM objects from elisp. > > Thanks, > Siegfried > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Help-gnu-emacs mailing list Help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org http://mail.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs End of Help-gnu-emacs Digest, Vol 12, Issue 30 ********************************************** ************************************************************************** The information transmitted herewith is sensitive information intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. 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