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* Fraktur
@ 2009-01-09 15:53 A. Soare
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-09 15:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried

(standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))

, however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?


Thanks in advance,


Alin Soare.





____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 15:53 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-09 16:29 ` Peter Dyballa
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur tomas
  2009-01-09 18:04 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-09 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [[help-gnu-emacs]]


Am 09.01.2009 um 16:53 schrieb A. Soare:

> (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))

The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.

>
> , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
> of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?

Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...

--
Greetings

   Pete

Wasting time is an important part of living.






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 15:53 Fraktur A. Soare
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
@ 2009-01-09 16:29 ` tomas
  2009-01-09 23:48   ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  2009-01-09 18:04 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: tomas @ 2009-01-09 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: A. Soare; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs], Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 04:53:10PM +0100, A. Soare wrote:
> 
> I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried
> 
> (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> 
> , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box
> instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?

Must be your fontset -- works for me (for some weird value of "works": I
get a strange bold-ish capital letter "A").

HTH
- -- tomás
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFJZ3uFBcgs9XrR2kYRAq7cAJ0cpmHW5a62TMurcvxlKWxBZ1NFzACfRz+F
DLPa6Gv1zKrsLMghlo+0mTI=
=W/Q1
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-09 16:53 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-09 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tomas; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Fri, Jan 09, 2009 at 04:53:10PM +0100, A. Soare wrote:
> > 
> > I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried
> > 
> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> > 
> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box
> > instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> 
> Must be your fontset -- works for me (for some weird value of "works": I
> get a strange bold-ish capital letter "A").

I use terminus and it does not work.



____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-09 16:55 A. Soare
  2009-01-09 18:10 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  2009-01-10  9:15 ` Fraktur Florian Beck
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-09 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


> 
> Am 09.01.2009 um 16:53 schrieb A. Soare:
> 
> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> 
> The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
> MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.
> 
> >
> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
> > of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> 
> Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...
> 
> 

I use terminus.

What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur? 



____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 15:53 Fraktur A. Soare
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur tomas
@ 2009-01-09 18:04 ` Jason Rumney
  2009-01-16  4:05   ` Fraktur Kenichi Handa
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2009-01-09 18:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs], Emacs Dev [emacs-devel]

A. Soare wrote:
> I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried
>
> (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
>
> , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
>   

Only in Emacs-23 (from CVS), and then probably only if you've taught 
Emacs which font contains that character (by default, Emacs does not 
have very sophisticated rules for choosing fonts for Unicode Plane 1 
characters):

(set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D7FF) (font-spec 
:family "MathematicalAlphanumericSymbolFont"))

... including whatever else is necessary to uniquely identify that font 
in the font-spec (eg. you might need registry and/or foundry if there 
are other fonts with the same family name installed).






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 16:55 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-09 18:10 ` Peter Dyballa
  2009-01-10  9:15 ` Fraktur Florian Beck
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-09 18:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


Am 09.01.2009 um 17:55 schrieb A. Soare:

> I use terminus.

Does it have characters from the Supplementary Multilingual Plane (SMP)?

>
> What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur?


None yet. GNU Emacs 23.0.60 would need an X11 font with an encoding  
containing the SMP – and I don't know one. Its Cocoa variant,  
Emacs.app, has a somehow strange font interface, i.e., the Font  
Palette of Mac OS X. No obvious way to create a fontset – and  
actually I don't see how I could override the setting from this palette!

--
Greetings

   Pete

Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists  
elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.
			– Bill Watterson, in his comic strip Calvin and Hobbes







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur tomas
@ 2009-01-09 23:48   ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-09 23:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: tomas; +Cc: A. Soare, Emacs Help [[help-gnu-emacs]]


Am 09.01.2009 um 17:29 schrieb tomas:

> Must be your fontset -- works for me (for some weird value of  
> "works": I
> get a strange bold-ish capital letter "A").

What do C-u C-x = on this character and M-x describe-fontset RET RET  
report?

--
Mit friedvollen Grüßen

   Pete

There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what  
you're talking about.
				– John von Neumann







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-10  2:05 A. Soare
  2009-01-10  3:08 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-10  2:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


Thanks. I am always use emacs CVS. However, the character corresponding to that code is an empty box for all the fonts.


Alin

> 
> A. Soare wrote:
> > I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried
> >
> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> >
> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> >   
> 
> Only in Emacs-23 (from CVS), and then probably only if you've taught 
> Emacs which font contains that character (by default, Emacs does not 
> have very sophisticated rules for choosing fonts for Unicode Plane 1 
> characters):
> 
> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D7FF) (font-spec 
> :family "MathematicalAlphanumericSymbolFont"))
> 
> ... including whatever else is necessary to uniquely identify that font 
> in the font-spec (eg. you might need registry and/or foundry if there 
> are other fonts with the same family name installed).
> 
> 
> 
> 

____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-10  2:05 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-10  3:08 ` Jason Rumney
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2009-01-10  3:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs]

A. Soare wrote:
> Thanks. I am always use emacs CVS. However, the character corresponding to that code is an empty box for all the fonts.
>   

Yes, it is quite unusual for fonts to support Unicode plane 1 
characters. You will have to search for such a font.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 16:55 Fraktur A. Soare
  2009-01-09 18:10 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
@ 2009-01-10  9:15 ` Florian Beck
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2009-01-10  9:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs]

"A. Soare" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:

>> 
>> Am 09.01.2009 um 16:53 schrieb A. Soare:
>> 
>> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
>> 
>> The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
>> MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.
>> 
>> >
>> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
>> > of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
>> 
>> Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...
>> 
>> 
>
> I use terminus.
>
> What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur?

Once you install a font like Code2001 or the free Unicode Symbols
(http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/), emacs should automatically use it (it
does for me).

If not,

(set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D5FF) (font-spec
:family "Unicode Symbols") nil)

should do the trick.

This is for mathematical symbols; if you want to display latin text in
blackletter, you need a font for that and simply use

(set-frame-font "JSL Blackletter")

-- 
Florian Beck




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-10 12:38 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-10 12:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


> > Here is a list of fonts that support SMP. But I do not see any font  
> > that contains the characters from the interval of Fraktur:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplementary_Multilingual_Plane
> 
> 
> Me, I don't see any fonts mentioned. It's about "scripts" that are  
> included into Unicode 5.1. A "script" is a writing system, a set of  
> rules how to use characters and digits and punctuation to write texts  
> in a particular language. A font supplies the glyphs that can be used  
> for typesetting this text (notice that, for example, Times,  
> Helvetica, and Courier all have an "a" glyph, and every time this  
> character when typed looks different though still an "a"). A font can  
> support many scripts.
> 

Oh! Sorry, I was tired. I wished say that there are examples of Unicode scripts, and there is a link for every script, but I don't see the interval for fraktur; 1D504–1D537 , 1D56C–1D59F; however, at the bottom there is the link 1D000-1DFFF, but at the page from that link I see just boxes that contain the hex humber of the character, not its representation, so I believe that the web browser does not recognize that font. Neither emacs, not mozilla recognize them.




____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-10 12:59 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-10 12:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Florian Beck; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]

Great!

I got it. I installed jsl blackletter, and emacs recognizes it.


Thanks.


> >> 
> >> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> >> 
> >> The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
> >> MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.
> >> 
> >> >
> >> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
> >> > of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> >> 
> >> Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> > I use terminus.
> >
> > What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur?
> 
> Once you install a font like Code2001 or the free Unicode Symbols
> (http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/), emacs should automatically use it (it
> does for me).
> 
> If not,
> 
> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D5FF) (font-spec
> :family "Unicode Symbols") nil)
> 
> should do the trick.
> 
> This is for mathematical symbols; if you want to display latin text in
> blackletter, you need a font for that and simply use
> 
> (set-frame-font "JSL Blackletter")
> 
> -- 
> Florian Beck
> 
> 

____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-10 13:07 A. Soare
  2009-01-10 23:23 ` Fraktur Florian Beck
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-10 13:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Florian Beck; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


I got it. I see Fraktur now, after having installed the good font. I am very happy. Thanks.

Alin


> Message du 10/01/09 à 10h15
> De : "Florian Beck" <abstraktion@t-online.de>
> A : alinsoar@voila.fr
> Copie à : "Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs]" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> Objet : Re: Fraktur
> 
> 
> "A. Soare" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:
> 
> >> 
> >> Am 09.01.2009 um 16:53 schrieb A. Soare:
> >> 
> >> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> >> 
> >> The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
> >> MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.
> >> 
> >> >
> >> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
> >> > of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> >> 
> >> Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> > I use terminus.
> >
> > What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur?
> 
> Once you install a font like Code2001 or the free Unicode Symbols
> (http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/), emacs should automatically use it (it
> does for me).
> 
> If not,
> 
> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D5FF) (font-spec
> :family "Unicode Symbols") nil)
> 
> should do the trick.
> 
> This is for mathematical symbols; if you want to display latin text in
> blackletter, you need a font for that and simply use
> 
> (set-frame-font "JSL Blackletter")
> 
> -- 
> Florian Beck
> 
> 

____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-10 14:49 A. Soare
  2009-01-11 10:00 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-10 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs], Emacs   Dev  [emacs-devel]


> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(typeface)
> 
> Nothing new or surprising. Since I am German I have to know Fraktur  
> and Blackadder, äh: Blackletter.

Ein Echter Deutscher ?



____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-10 13:07 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-10 23:23 ` Florian Beck
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Florian Beck @ 2009-01-10 23:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs], Florian Beck

"A. Soare" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:

> I got it. I see Fraktur now, after having installed the good font. I
> am very happy. Thanks.

Good.

So, how does it work out for you? Allegedly, blackletter aides word
recognition (it doesn't for me). »JSL Blackletter« might not really be
appropriate for on-screen display, though, it seems a bit washy.

By the way, this font is not a *fraktur*. It is textualis (which I find
much more pleasing); its squiggled capitals might not really suit a
capital-heavy language like German.

>
> Alin
>
>> Message du 10/01/09 à 10h15
>> De : "Florian Beck" <abstraktion@t-online.de>
>> A : alinsoar@voila.fr
>> Copie à : "Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs]" <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
>> Objet : Re: Fraktur
>> 
>> 
>> "A. Soare" <alinsoar@voila.fr> writes:
>> 
>> >> 
>> >> Am 09.01.2009 um 16:53 schrieb A. Soare:
>> >> 
>> >> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
>> >> 
>> >> The character at U+1D400 is MATHEMATICAL BOLD CAPITAL A. U+1D504 is  
>> >> MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR CAPITAL A.
>> >> 
>> >> >
>> >> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead  
>> >> > of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
>> >> 
>> >> Why not? Once you use the proper fonts, Asana Math or Code2001 ...
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >
>> > I use terminus.
>> >
>> > What is your settings in your .emacs for fraktur?
>> 
>> Once you install a font like Code2001 or the free Unicode Symbols
>> (http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/), emacs should automatically use it (it
>> does for me).
>> 
>> If not,
>> 
>> (set-fontset-font "fontset-default" '(#x1D400 . #x1D5FF) (font-spec
>> :family "Unicode Symbols") nil)
>> 
>> should do the trick.
>> 
>> This is for mathematical symbols; if you want to display latin text in
>> blackletter, you need a font for that and simply use
>> 
>> (set-frame-font "JSL Blackletter")
>> 
>> -- 
>> Florian Beck
>> 
>> 
>
> ____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/

-- 
Viele Grüße,
Flo




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-11  3:19 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-11  3:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Florian Beck; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]

> > I got it. I see Fraktur now, after having installed the good font. I
> > am very happy. Thanks.
> 
> Good.
> 
> So, how does it work out for you? Allegedly, blackletter aides word
> recognition (it doesn't for me). »JSL Blackletter« might not really be
> appropriate for on-screen display, though, it seems a bit washy.

I use JSL Blackletter. I have installed it as true type font. I used this file:

http://desktoppub.about.com/library/fonts/dd/jslblttf.zip

After having installed it , emacs and mozilla recognize it. In .emacs I call:

(set-default-font "-unknown-JSL Blackletter--normal-normal-*-*-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1")


> 
> By the way, this font is not a *fraktur*. It is textualis (which I find
> much more pleasing); its squiggled capitals might not really suit a
> capital-heavy language like German.

JSL Blackletter seems to me almost identical to Fraktur.

http://www.identifont.com/samples/bitstream/Fraktur.gif
http://www.searchfreefonts.com/assets/searchfreefonts/charsets/small/jblack.png

Compare `y` for exemple. Topologically they are very identical.

I like it.

Maybe the editors in Germany will use again and use Fraktur to print books ?


____________________________________________________Des photos de vacances ou des vidéos de réveillons à partager ? Voila vous offre 1 Go d’espace de stockage sur http://www.voila.fr/Macle/






^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-10 14:49 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-11 10:00 ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-11 10:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs Help [help-gnu-emacs]


Am 10.01.2009 um 15:49 schrieb A. Soare:

>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(typeface)
>>
>> Nothing new or surprising. Since I am German I have to know Fraktur
>> and Blackadder, äh: Blackletter.
>
> Ein Echter Deutscher ?


Oui! Qui sont les faux allemands? Des nazis?

--
Greetings

   Pete

"Debugging? Klingons do not debug! Our software does not coddle the  
weak."





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-11 21:23 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-11 21:23 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]

> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraktur_(typeface)
> >>
> >> Nothing new or surprising. Since I am German I have to know Fraktur
> >> and Blackadder, äh: Blackletter.
> >
> > Ein Echter Deutscher ?
> 
> 
> Oui! Qui sont les faux allemands? Des nazis?
> 

J'ai entendu dire cette expression au prof "Ioan Petru Culianu", qui a ete fusille en 1991 dans le batiment de l'Universite de Chicago. Je ne connais rien sur la culture de l'Allemagne; je viens de commencer a etudier cette langue. Mais oui, cette expression en a traite.



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-12 16:26 A. Soare
  2009-01-12 17:48 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-12 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


Capital U and capital V are completely identical in JSL Blackletter.

Alin.



> Message du 11/01/09 à 10h59
> De : "Peter Dyballa" <Peter_Dyballa@Web.DE>
> A : alinsoar@voila.fr
> Copie à : 
> Objet : Re: Fraktur
> 
> 
> 
> Am 10.01.2009 um 13:38 schrieb A. Soare:
> 
> > Oh! Sorry, I was tired. I wished say that there are examples of  
> > Unicode scripts, and there is a link for every script, but I don't  
> > see the interval for fraktur; 1D504–1D537 , 1D56C–1D59F; however,  
> > at the bottom there is the link 1D000-1DFFF, but at the page from  
> > that link I see just boxes that contain the hex humber of the  
> > character, not its representation, so I believe that the web  
> > browser does not recognize that font. Neither emacs, not mozilla  
> > recognize them.
> 
> 
> On Mac OS X Apple's Safari fails, but iCab or Camino work fine –  
> although the latter shows some whole, i.e., blank fields.
> 
> --
> Greetings
> 
>    Pete
> 
> Who the fsck is "General Failure," and why is he reading my disk?
> 
> 
> 
> 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-12 16:26 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-12 17:48 ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-12 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


Am 12.01.2009 um 17:26 schrieb A. Soare:

> Capital U and capital V are completely identical in JSL Blackletter.

There are more Blackletter or Fraktur fonts: Schwabacher, Cloister  
Black, English Towne, ...

The usual free fonts sites will have a few dozens of these non- 
Unicode fonts.

--
Greetings

   Pete

You can learn many things from children.  How much patience you have,  
for instance.
				– Franklin P. Jones







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-12 18:33 A. Soare
  2009-01-12 19:15 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-12 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


I Emacs I need it for C code. Is there a good Fraktur font for the C code? (and Lisp)
JSL Blackletter for example is not able to print the pointer characters "->".

Alin. 


> Am 12.01.2009 um 17:26 schrieb A. Soare:
> 
> > Capital U and capital V are completely identical in JSL Blackletter.
> 
> There are more Blackletter or Fraktur fonts: Schwabacher, Cloister  
> Black, English Towne, ...
> 
> The usual free fonts sites will have a few dozens of these non- 
> Unicode fonts.
> 
> --
> Greetings
> 
>    Pete
> 
> You can learn many things from children.  How much patience you have,  
> for instance.
> 				– Franklin P. Jones
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-12 18:33 Fraktur A. Soare
@ 2009-01-12 19:15 ` Peter Dyballa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Peter Dyballa @ 2009-01-12 19:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: alinsoar; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]


Am 12.01.2009 um 19:33 schrieb A. Soare:

> I Emacs I need it for C code. Is there a good Fraktur font for the  
> C code? (and Lisp)
> JSL Blackletter for example is not able to print the pointer  
> characters "->".


I don't know. Blackletter or Fraktur are not scripts I tend to use. I  
am more like the guy King Crimson describe: 21st Century ... Man  
(including Mirrors) ...


The ASCII free font download sites regularly offer a field to input  
some test text. Besides, many show also the complete font's contents.  
I don't have a real recommendation for such a side. Usually I  
"google" for some font specification and then it happens that I'm led  
to such a side ... In my browser's history I found: http:// 
www.searchfreefonts.com/.

--
Greetings

   Pete

If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
				– George W. Bush







^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-12 21:21 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-12 21:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]

> > I Emacs I need it for C code. Is there a good Fraktur font for the  
> > C code? (and Lisp)
> > JSL Blackletter for example is not able to print the pointer  
> > characters "->".
> 
> 
> I don't know. Blackletter or Fraktur are not scripts I tend to use. I  
> am more like the guy King Crimson describe: 21st Century ... Man  
> (including Mirrors) ...

Here is a misunderstanding. Fraktur doesn't tire the eyes. It's true that it seems more obfuscated, but the eyes feel better comparing to the modern fonts. That is the point about that font apart from being more beautiful than 21st century's fonts. Yes, I like the medieval period. It's the period when the modern man born. In the medieval period the men cannot think abstractly. Something happenned at that time, and the abstract thinking born. Have you read Dante or Giordano Bruno?

> www.searchfreefonts.com/.

This seem a good site. Thanks.



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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
@ 2009-01-15 10:22 A. Soare
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: A. Soare @ 2009-01-15 10:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Peter Dyballa; +Cc: Emacs   Help  [help-gnu-emacs]

I am interested about a Fraktur font which is good for editing C and Lisp code. All the Fraktur fonts that I have tried have some incovenient.

Do you know one for this purpose?







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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-09 18:04 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
@ 2009-01-16  4:05   ` Kenichi Handa
  2009-01-17  0:38     ` Fraktur James Cloos
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-01-16  4:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: alinsoar, help-gnu-emacs, emacs-devel

In article <496791C2.8030308@gnu.org>, Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes:

> A. Soare wrote:
> > I try to use the german Fraktur, and I tried
> >
> > (standard-display-ascii ?a  (vector (decode-char 'ucs #x1D400)))
> >
> > , however the unicode character is not present. I see a box instead of the german `A`; Is there a possibility to use Fraktur in emacs?
> >   

> Only in Emacs-23 (from CVS), and then probably only if you've taught 
> Emacs which font contains that character (by default, Emacs does not 
> have very sophisticated rules for choosing fonts for Unicode Plane 1 
> characters):

The rule Emacs currently has for choosing a font for Unicode
Plane 1 is to find a font supporting a scpecifc script.  For
instance, U+1D400 belongs to `mathematical' script, so Emacs
searches fonts supporting that script. And, xft font-backend
uses `script-representative-chars' to do such searching.  Ad
the representative charcters of `mathematical' is U+1D400,
xft font-backend searches fonts that support U+1D400.

How does the font-backend for Windows searches fonts for a
specific script?

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@m17n.org




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-16  4:05   ` Fraktur Kenichi Handa
@ 2009-01-17  0:38     ` James Cloos
  2009-02-05  6:25       ` Fraktur Kenichi Handa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 28+ messages in thread
From: James Cloos @ 2009-01-17  0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: alinsoar, help-gnu-emacs, Jason Rumney, emacs-devel

>>>>> "Handa" == Kenichi Handa <handa@m17n.org> writes:

Handa> The rule Emacs currently has for choosing a font for Unicode
Handa> Plane 1 is to find a font supporting a scpecifc script.  For
Handa> instance, U+1D400 belongs to `mathematical' script, so Emacs
Handa> searches fonts supporting that script. And, xft font-backend
Handa> uses `script-representative-chars' to do such searching.  Ad
Handa> the representative charcters of `mathematical' is U+1D400,
Handa> xft font-backend searches fonts that support U+1D400.

Because of how the font-wide hinting works, font families like DejaVu
have added the mathematical characters -- at least initially -- to
the specific faces which have similar glyphs.

Ie, the MATHEMATICAL ITALIC characters were added to the Serif-Italic,
MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF ITALIC to Sans-Oblique, etc.

As such, it would probably be a good idea for emacs to consider each
range of MATHEMATICAL characters as its own script, for the purpose
of choosing a default font.

The (sub-)families in the MATHEMATICAL block would be:

  MATHEMATICAL BOLD
  MATHEMATICAL ITALIC
  MATHEMATICAL BOLD ITALIC
  MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT
  MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT
  MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR
  MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK
  MATHEMATICAL BOLD FRAKTUR
  MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF
  MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD
  MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF ITALIC
  MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC
  MATHEMATICAL MONOSPACE

It /may/ also be necessary to diferentiate between latin and greek in
those ranges, but I suspect not.

-JimC
-- 
James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com>         OpenPGP: 1024D/ED7DAEA6




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

* Re: Fraktur
  2009-01-17  0:38     ` Fraktur James Cloos
@ 2009-02-05  6:25       ` Kenichi Handa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 28+ messages in thread
From: Kenichi Handa @ 2009-02-05  6:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: James Cloos; +Cc: alinsoar, help-gnu-emacs, emacs-devel, jasonr

Sorry for the late responce on this matter.

In article <m3r6326a10.fsf@lugabout.jhcloos.org>, James Cloos <cloos@jhcloos.com> writes:

> Because of how the font-wide hinting works, font families like DejaVu
> have added the mathematical characters -- at least initially -- to
> the specific faces which have similar glyphs.

> Ie, the MATHEMATICAL ITALIC characters were added to the Serif-Italic,
> MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF ITALIC to Sans-Oblique, etc.

> As such, it would probably be a good idea for emacs to consider each
> range of MATHEMATICAL characters as its own script, for the purpose
> of choosing a default font.

> The (sub-)families in the MATHEMATICAL block would be:

>   MATHEMATICAL BOLD
>   MATHEMATICAL ITALIC
>   MATHEMATICAL BOLD ITALIC
>   MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT
>   MATHEMATICAL BOLD SCRIPT
>   MATHEMATICAL FRAKTUR
>   MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE-STRUCK
>   MATHEMATICAL BOLD FRAKTUR
>   MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF
>   MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD
>   MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF ITALIC
>   MATHEMATICAL SANS-SERIF BOLD ITALIC
>   MATHEMATICAL MONOSPACE

I've just installed a similar fix.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@m17n.org




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 28+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2009-02-05  6:25 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-01-09 15:53 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-09 16:29 ` Fraktur tomas
2009-01-09 23:48   ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-09 18:04 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
2009-01-16  4:05   ` Fraktur Kenichi Handa
2009-01-17  0:38     ` Fraktur James Cloos
2009-02-05  6:25       ` Fraktur Kenichi Handa
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-01-09 16:53 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-09 16:55 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-09 18:10 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-10  9:15 ` Fraktur Florian Beck
2009-01-10  2:05 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-10  3:08 ` Fraktur Jason Rumney
2009-01-10 12:38 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-10 12:59 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-10 13:07 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-10 23:23 ` Fraktur Florian Beck
2009-01-10 14:49 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-11 10:00 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-11  3:19 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-11 21:23 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-12 16:26 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-12 17:48 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-12 18:33 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-12 19:15 ` Fraktur Peter Dyballa
2009-01-12 21:21 Fraktur A. Soare
2009-01-15 10:22 Fraktur A. Soare

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