From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joe Corneli Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: X11 Mac OS X 10.3 emacs fink: only terminal? Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:07:25 -0600 Message-ID: References: <1102952440.733798.50520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <325srfF3gmkjmU2@individual.net> <326je9F3j7frtU1@individual.net> <327dl2F3gcngrU1@individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1103098074 12919 80.91.229.6 (15 Dec 2004 08:07:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:07:54 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 15 09:07:47 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeUCJ-0006vM-00 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:07:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeUMU-0003PU-PI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:18:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CeUME-0003NR-0j for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:18:02 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CeUMC-0003MM-4t for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:18:00 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeUMC-0003MB-03 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:18:00 -0500 Original-Received: from [146.6.139.124] (helo=dell3.ma.utexas.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CeUBy-0003Cv-KY for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 03:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: from linux183.ma.utexas.edu (mail@linux183.ma.utexas.edu [146.6.139.172]) by dell3.ma.utexas.edu (8.11.0.Beta3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id iBF87Pl08814; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:07:25 -0600 Original-Received: from jcorneli by linux183.ma.utexas.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeUBx-0006KD-00; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 02:07:25 -0600 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Tim McNamara on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:46:32 -0600) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:22767 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:22767 This is gnu.emacs.help, which is a Usenet newsgroup. It is about using Emacs and not about furthering RMS's issues about free software. While I think he is fundamentally correct and thought that _Free Software, Free Society_ is an excellent book, GNU does not own any piece of Usenet, and voluntary or otherwise censorship is not appropriate if RMS expects to be able to maintain his or anyone else's freedom. Somebody wants to make it a condition of a mailing list, that's another issue. Why not take it up with him. > However, Carbon Emacs is just as free as X11 Emacs, and it would > be stupid not to be able to talk about it on this group. This > does not constitute a recommendation for nonfree software in any > way that I can see. Sure, Carbon itself is nonfree, but we are > not promoting it merely by talking about Carbon Emacs, are we? > > I'm not really sure. > > I don't think I would have had any particular objection to "If you > only have the goal of using Emacs outside of the terminal, and you > don't mind missing out on the programs and features that you could > use under X11, you could just install the Carbon version." Pretty > different from the ringing endorsement of Carbon/Aqua that we heard. So it's not OK to talk about using Emacs under Aqua because that's not free software, but it's apparently OK to talk about using Emacs under Windows. At least you haven't jumped all over those threads with your size twelves. Wassup with that? I didn't say that it isn't OK to talk about using Emacs under Aqua, I said it isn't OK to recommend Aqua over the available free alternative. Did you read the statement of mine that you're quoting? I don't really have anything to say about Windows. If someone said that it was better to use Emacs under Windows than it is to use it under X11, I'd have the same objection. And, for that matter, what "features" and programs run under Emacs/X11 that can't be run under Emacs/Aqua? xmodmap, modifiers, and window managers are the main things I was thinking of. Also, there are plenty of X-only graphical programs seperate from Emacs.