From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Joe Corneli Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: X11 Mac OS X 10.3 emacs fink: only terminal? Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:42:13 -0600 Message-ID: References: <1102952440.733798.50520@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <325srfF3gmkjmU2@individual.net> <326je9F3j7frtU1@individual.net> <327dl2F3gcngrU1@individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1103042561 14545 80.91.229.6 (14 Dec 2004 16:42:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 14 17:42:32 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeFku-0004nm-00 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 17:42:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeFv3-00084N-PF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:53:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CeFup-00083G-Tu for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:52:48 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1CeFun-00081b-4E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:52:45 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CeFum-00081R-Vj for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:52:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [146.6.139.124] (helo=dell3.ma.utexas.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CeFkc-0000gE-4o for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:42:14 -0500 Original-Received: from linux183.ma.utexas.edu (mail@linux183.ma.utexas.edu [146.6.139.172]) by dell3.ma.utexas.edu (8.11.0.Beta3/8.10.2) with ESMTP id iBEGgDl05856; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:42:13 -0600 Original-Received: from jcorneli by linux183.ma.utexas.edu with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1CeFkb-0005Ao-00; Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:42:13 -0600 Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Barry Margolin on Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:48:40 -0500) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:22743 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.help:22743 In article , Joe Corneli wrote: > Why would I want to use some parochial, proprietary, monolithic, > *nonfree* windowing system when I could use an advanced, portable, > highly configurable free one (i.e., X11 and ratpoison ;))? I run OS > X, but my user experience is essentially indistinguishable from my > experience on GNU/Linux. If you don't care for Apple's GUI, why are you even bothering to run OS X instead of GNU/Linux? It seems strange to use a Mac and then essentially ignore its distinguishing feature. The machine isn't actually owned by me, so I'm a little uncomfortable changing the OS, especially since I haven't bothered to hang on to the install CD's. I could probably make it dual boot, but even that might bother the people I might have to give the machine back to someday. Well, I don't know if anyone would really care or not. And since the UI I use is all free software and I'm not very likely to get interested in what's happening in the lower levels of the system, I'm not in a big hurry to switch OS's at this point anyway. But besides that, I like the feeling that I've helped a little with "porting" the free software experience to OS X. I think that there are probably a number of people who go Mac not because of the windowing system but because they think that it will make it easier for them to start using free-as-in-beer software. (Probably a misperception, though it would be pretty darn easy if Apple shipped the machines with X11 and Fink preinstalled.) Macs are more expensive and, I imagined at the time, slightly better built. I wasn't paying, Fink was providing the software, and so I chose Apple. Since then I've become much more of a free software aficionado. I don't think that Apple's "distinguishing feature" as you put it really isn't so hot, or all that special, when compared with X11, and it wasn't what attracted me to the system. My laptop, and its replacements, have critically malfunctioned, in total, about a half-dozen times in the last two and a half years. Next time I get to choose a machine, I'll probably go with a sturdy x86 model and try out GNU/Hurd.