From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Where is Emacs Lisp taught ? 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[128.53.251.192]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m19-v6sm12583558pgv.93.2018.10.26.17.55.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 26 Oct 2018 17:55:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53705d26-8a69-4453-aed9-ab72a0cd139e@googlegroups.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:118437 Archived-At: Gene, Thank you for this remark. I totally agree with you. elisp should be = considered a domain specific language and not be compared to general = purpose languages in general. Hence the difficulty to find places that teach elisp, since such places = would rather teach general computing, than domain specific computing. Jean-Christophe=20 > On Oct 27, 2018, at 3:05, Gene wrote: >=20 > On Wednesday, October 24, 2018 at 12:02:59 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg = wrote: >=20 >> I did such a course at UU in 2013-02-01 - it >> was called "Advanced Functional Programming". >>=20 >> The Lisp wasn't Elisp tho but CL with the >> SBCL compiler. >>=20 >> And I think it is better to teach CL than >> Elisp, in all honesty... >=20 > Having read the other responses posted thus far,=20 > this seems like the best grafting point from which to ramify > another branch of thought for our consideration. >=20 > Too many CS and math types=20 > -- both perverted by these pro forma, would-be `formal' would-be = sciences --=20 > reveal their theoretical biases, paradigms, and frameworks by such = comments. >=20 > Elisp is NOT merely an `inferior' lisp which `sucks';=20 > it IS a top-notch, SUPERIOR Domain-Specific Language. >=20 > ref: = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Other_examples >=20 > IMNSHO, dumb asses compare the execution of lisp code against = unflattering and bone-headed standards when they use `programming = languages' -- such as C -- rather manual-mode TYPING which the users of = OTHER text editors MUST perform manually BECAUSE their text editor = either has NO `extension language' or one which SUCKS as bad as elisp is = libeled and defamed through comparisons with general-purpose programming = languages. >=20 > In this regard, I regard it more-foolish to cast elisp as an inferior = lisp or Functional Language than it is to portray it as a Superior = Domain-Specific Language coincidentally supporting the functional = paradigm and the lisp-family -- minus Logo -- supporting syntax which = facilitates meta-programming, macros, and all sorts of wholesome = goodness. >=20 > When I'm using emacs it's not the speed of the elisp execution which = matters; it's MY speed -- my Personal Operating System Speed -- that = matters! >=20 > How much time and personal processing am I saving by using elisp as a = Domain Specific Language which saves me time and hassles I'd have to = endure as Opportunity Costs if I were to use another whole tool box of = non-interoperable apps ... most of which can't be (as) easily automated = or yolked together as elisp packages and libraries? >=20 > The missing Course is NOT one which emphasizes `functional' this or = `lispiness' that ... it's one which keeps it's eyes upon the prize: = "Exploiting the hell out of Emacs Lisp as a Domain-specific language = which saves YOU time by allowing YOU to outsource and delegate = time-consuming, tedious, otherwise-MANUAL operations!" >=20 > Computer time is cheaper than dirt; YOUR TIME is priceless. >=20 > The Domain-specific Language Point-of-View and Paradigm allows YOU to = make better value judgments than other PoVs which emphasize = less-important factors and considerations. >=20 > Think about it! >=20 > Cheers! > Gene >=20 Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune