From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Major and minor modes Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 08:10:21 +0900 Message-ID: References: <5202e0d6-4476-4e97-a5cb-f1ee66d562c3@default> <366AD726-AE6A-4138-909E-DCA3C9F2B203@gmail.com> <83y3su3axp.fsf@gnu.org> <41AE1409-13B6-404F-BE28-FE43D482360B@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497481862 22711 195.159.176.226 (14 Jun 2017 23:11:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 23:11:02 +0000 (UTC) To: Help Gnu Emacs mailing list Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 15 01:10:59 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dLHRB-0005Zw-8m for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 01:10:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51184 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dLHRE-0007s7-Rx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:11:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35088) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dLHQl-0007s1-Sy for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:10:32 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dLHQg-0005ku-TH for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:10:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233]:34270) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dLHQg-0005kl-Mf for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 19:10:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id v18so6482039pgb.1 for ; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 16:10:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=My1xijSI/EhTWVfyyXf75pZxGiE2HQqruKneX0/wORM=; b=ajAn5NycRlwT3hvm13gfOb2RjjHXLVbtfmMx3TdkCmy+CoxPh/DAinjMaPWiCUJW+H usEzeK67gi866Kl/CvcNnrQbT0FAjH+0UiHQ1jCrARb07u7eu2lQPkS9zWGDYXxWfiX7 ZUJixGEqO3ac0lnIdixMqrTxtS3UBkqMOXhwIZpxHGEj2vL+q2VuOu8ZiqZh8Y5VIVql I4P9y/w7+AvLzJ1rAbBaAnkIdDKmOonsBuY7HmkRsfCwDjwP3ITJz2Fz3Rmsuqo0Ci/A 3JU/9XbKpWaSM9GW6G32s4Hf+Ir3t+dfcxwgA9sfslS08SeG1bCMtBgmyfNs0kr1AGlr PzRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=My1xijSI/EhTWVfyyXf75pZxGiE2HQqruKneX0/wORM=; b=VjAVvTepvImaMKuOtOtaeTZ4AF3n0hlGm0y7yMNox7wBm+fKPOqEQJkTPhs7q8KU04 uuRFbdWVJD1+/56O1oGZ5reRbHIY/+Qu/HeVQQtN+6ZFXetiQfDi97+m1H0+ER8zGIrx 8OCr4nUb0O+grhqO9nAJ/ayfZ3QaCeRYdLyLDuglHVUb2hhzHmHhWAVkdD7BOXg3RsU2 dViMZYelD1VcIqfCGa8HhzBEGQ3UV0Qwr+VaxfeatQBjoOuvlDMDTZXFlWeFOUDoI1Ah njefGpYm7KLTw5ORuHMOqIpYE6nR/1LNt8LNX+qmq8xRgqXi+KrN2syIhao6oXvvYJDP jZsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxeDiR4ZatUan8ZbbspgWWu6+pE/wEd34dywITggme8knWAkFZI jOjYOvkAPsKtJgx2x9w= X-Received: by 10.98.160.80 with SMTP id r77mr2268703pfe.86.1497481825251; Wed, 14 Jun 2017 16:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.24.55] (pl2587.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp. [128.53.196.27]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s9sm1960068pfe.21.2017.06.14.16.10.23 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 14 Jun 2017 16:10:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <41AE1409-13B6-404F-BE28-FE43D482360B@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:113464 Archived-At: As I just wrote, "That discrepancy is a bit weird." *especially* since = the Info mode has groupings that don't even correspond to the PDF or the = HTML... I really think we should have more consistency in the way the manual is = "visually" structured regardless of the format. (And really, the 50+ pages of the "extra features" not being included in = the 600+ pages manual *is* extra weird. If the issue were really to save = on paper, we'd have a better balance between the manual and the extra = features.) Jean-Christophe=20 > On Jun 15, 2017, at 6:58, Jean-Christophe Helary = wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Jun 14, 2017, at 23:23, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>=20 >>> From: Jean-Christophe Helary >>> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 12:49:21 +0900 >>>=20 >>> Interesting. I just noticed that the HTML and the PDF do not have = the same chapter numbering. >>=20 >> I think that's because the PDF version is produced like a printed >> manual would be, which means some of the stuff is excluded, while the >> HTML version includes everything, like the Info version would. >=20 > It's different. >=20 > PDF Chapter 2 "Characters, Keys and Commands" has: > [introductory text about the chapter] > 2.1 Kinds of User Input > 2.2 Keys > 2.3 Keys and Commands >=20 > but the HTML has: > =E2=80=A2 2 Kinds of User Input > =E2=80=A2 3 Keys > =E2=80=A2 4 Keys and Commands >=20 > So in the HTML, PDF sub-chapters are chapters on their own and the = introductory text is not present: > "This chapter explains the character sets used by Emacs for input = commands, and the fundamental concepts of keys and commands, whereby = Emacs interprets your keyboard and mouse input." >=20 > PDF Chapter 3 "Entering and Exiting Emacs" corresponds to HTML > =E2=80=A2 5 Entering Emacs > =E2=80=A2 6 Exiting Emacs >=20 > Then, until we reach PDF Chapter 31 "Miscellaneous Commands", = everything corresponds and the HTML has introductory texts for each = chapter just like the PDF. > PDF 31 corresponds to HTML > =E2=80=A2 34 Gnus > =E2=80=A2 35 Host Security > =E2=80=A2 36 Network Security > =E2=80=A2 37 Document Viewing > =E2=80=A2 38 Web Browsing with EWW > =E2=80=A2 39 Embedded WebKit Widgets > =E2=80=A2 40 Running Shell Commands from Emacs > =E2=80=A2 41 Using Emacs as a Server > =E2=80=A2 42 Printing Hard Copies > =E2=80=A2 43 Sorting Text > =E2=80=A2 44 Editing Pictures > =E2=80=A2 45 Editing Binary Files > =E2=80=A2 46 Saving Emacs Sessions > =E2=80=A2 47 Recursive Editing Levels > =E2=80=A2 48 Hyperlinking and Navigation Features > =E2=80=A2 49 Other Amusements >=20 > which were the subject of a recent discussion on emacs-devel btw. >=20 > Then PDF has: > 32 Emacs Lisp Packages................................. 431 > 33 Customization ...................................... 436 > 34 Dealing with Common Problems ....................... 468 >=20 > And that chapter 34 corresponds to HTML > =E2=80=A2 52 Quitting and Aborting > =E2=80=A2 53 Dealing with Emacs Trouble > =E2=80=A2 54 Reporting Bugs > =E2=80=A2 55 Contributing to Emacs Development > =E2=80=A2 56 How To Get Help with GNU Emacs >=20 > That discrepancy is a bit weird. >=20 > Jean-Christophe