From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Pressing ? does not allow window scrolling through the list of info commands Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2023 02:34:56 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83bkgoguea.fsf@gnu.org> <837crcgra6.fsf@gnu.org> <83mt07ee2n.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15371"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 07 21:35:36 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qHrEt-0003o3-Ki for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 21:35:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHrEZ-0005b6-L1; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:35:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHrEV-0005ao-3q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:35:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2a]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qHrET-0003G7-M3; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:35:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-443746c638eso817695137.2; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:35:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1688758508; x=1691350508; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=AzOpZs7TJRozpzzfBvkPVsuVf/YHwAkfmXEsb5FcFso=; b=OfxZyc13s2rL9IHMkOme93QZa/Ea6MduwhiFbr2WEH8hWmcz7gHiy1FUN63UcybQel RuTN5/34S4728lt5IX/Kg6k2RUrY0usi5e9N6L4hVQuD6S6bbrhhvyHgqAcLW3ujVSRL lQE7oXx5xLSJNl3s6PkRrTlz6ehZWyEam3RN8C61KO8TFrUD/b/zBPWL83I7sQ3IxzBJ Ygqs8sOvrYh650D93hAswmM5gi+pRbrWPB+h3IX/6i15s7wsIqhO1sNTrJd0cYpZ6avJ Mfpf7ELG4SvTLEi+eeXw/KzQR5ReosFOXbuwCRqillmAsZfW+JTqfnrkRAU4mCimaZ2V ubfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1688758508; x=1691350508; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=AzOpZs7TJRozpzzfBvkPVsuVf/YHwAkfmXEsb5FcFso=; b=JcDQ2WJemfL10D/LaW0e95vOE4OaFvS7FTYtJdh9DrSX4UYMCDOuA9e0LTQC+QHVEP DviQbjg3u+YdnwiHdIHwa/CD1poE+eK59KrI8XGhL2SXwfgWTF42ojspvoWb1BpMGMLJ yNXNOUyLSlyIcPI4+RksrpRfbPYmKFsia/WbaotiJeiQeQarSgnm2T5Ty6rcwV7HxbXN 1uV+M/5CuHZfCKOAMEPVWEA4SkX4EMNo/l0G11z2sFh89p7v7ubq54pyg85gq5jyO5uL hYXtg6B/CbujBm2mofYGXTUJ1XTdLLqwQn9T+TLG6BIrlhsibm7MNU9hBbhV/Tjpp1Bo DvHQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLYbu31fS9XXBXKos1HWyTZ0PJAewX6cakyXI32ZyRFy42mzM3wm K7O3mPMKXH84uN5GPCM1qglGMZz9uBi73RCr/W/Si879 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlGxJLIJTwo+43WNvQ/YKXzdTsP0f/wN6W83pud0p44uxeeZ5+gvRhaT255MDalgj48F9Iv93Yumo3uVMIcGKKo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:3554:b0:444:aee2:37e8 with SMTP id e20-20020a056102355400b00444aee237e8mr3886490vss.24.1688758507890; Fri, 07 Jul 2023 12:35:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83mt07ee2n.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2a; envelope-from=yurivkhan@gmail.com; helo=mail-vs1-xe2a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144189 Archived-At: On Sat, 8 Jul 2023 at 02:06, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > =E2=80=98help-mode-map=E2=80=99 has =E2=80=98q=E2=80=99 bound to =E2=80= =98quit-window=E2=80=99 and that=E2=80=99s the minimal > > fuss way to return from the help window. It also would help build > > habits that work with a wide set of buffers in Emacs. > > And how will we tell the user that 'q' quits? In the echo-area, > perhaps? Echo area, or header line, or mode line, whatever. > > As it is, the user has to build three sets of habits [=E2=80=A6] > > You exaggerate the problem. A typical user of computers these days > needs much more than 3 sets of habits for similar actions. And > scrolling with SPC in Emacs is quite a widely-used paradigm. Users who know about scrolling with Space also expect Shift+Space to scroll in reverse. Users also *really* expect to be able to scroll by single lines. Help that hides as soon as you try to scroll it is not very helpful.