From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Grant Rettke Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Disemvowelment Mode? Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 22:54:56 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="186397"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Help Gnu Emacs mailing list To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue May 14 05:55:58 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hQOXm-000mNU-Ek for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 May 2019 05:55:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38614 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQOXl-0001fb-AT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 23:55:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59858) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQOXW-0001fQ-RN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 23:55:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQOXV-0006kO-5Q for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 23:55:42 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot1-x335.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::335]:32880) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hQOXR-0006I7-U7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 May 2019 23:55:39 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot1-x335.google.com with SMTP id 66so13927776otq.0 for ; Mon, 13 May 2019 20:55:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wisdomandwonder.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Yo4eiW/hE2GHB7XDpHGfwUTLxL8Rhm4UqF6RWqh0t18=; b=KFz1TSZgeVPy+piJr30oIVDqzLs/co/1zr2nb4wvJ0sB7vAAq9D0fRmWUQETtR0/Uq tXCwNGa7n0HzlkIyNekP6mXefoanmj8IIuA1UcyV7itPnGnbekxu4tIRs4aGPIp1KEEs MM9jAqdNi/YnAG4dwBKByrVk357l1FpMuzq8JJ83vmmMmTVC+itWSLl5QS8ejZtXNZ63 924pWqQigW1Bp2ItJIX1IYWejA8nbtdmSqOrzB9iRuheKSkMDLraSTGn9PvgLRUPVlNG Td9+Q82hD5kxxjbPJF4xzd8em6g5zLuIeiJIRkd3a8Mr+BYkybF6RtjrIW5eSvCygYDr /Z6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Yo4eiW/hE2GHB7XDpHGfwUTLxL8Rhm4UqF6RWqh0t18=; b=b9scj5wOCrlsGBQfw9LDBhVlnu95lobmWl6rD+NSKFLaC02qM3/LM0pIP3SGOUk4m5 DVBoJjBDQueqNnEDsYOsBZz6ErB46E2+vUgPu9XxrgqlvlLfwwyTkh5potPdq2Zc3upZ gotN2/Rz2m1jUCY3enJLPEwajNzrZ6I5m+ZfCddfWolgdhO0vrvS7+FnDA4bbBgTabRf G/E/iqmQMuc1w6SF/UW9KInAxjhbF1gjArCGjG33xSh7X39S0I4w5qyv3iKWAtr4sluZ +gWMePChI32l2Fjh624UP78Q8FUFw7tyrA5I/0QHw6xpV+fzSuuvfzT1SunTEA/bmiXF AKYg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVpyUvuSK9/1ebDWCrQvjj6DcQjmkJmUfZgXWe1zgM/+byLvGD6 laQrlH6TUPVD860c8Z35Il3vfrwi9VINFBKk2B6t2g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwJephPjAbAcXxUQjNUNg+VHrxyifUFafUsryD6E1tzHdsFdD9XLw0BhhEqNfPyylNWkSpew3ARIz+T9DUo9hY= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:744d:: with SMTP id p13mr549933otk.96.1557806106776; Mon, 13 May 2019 20:55:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::335 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120356 Archived-At: On Mon, May 13, 2019 at 8:33 PM Stefan Monnier wrote: > >> I just wanted to point out that I don't understand why you'd find it > >> desirable for the software to remove the vowels that you did type. > > That is my fault: I didn't share why. > > > > When I am typing, most of the time I can keep up and more or less > > apply the simple rules I am trying to follow. The problem is when > > I get distracted (or tired, or the speaker goes to fast and I can't > > keep up) and I just start typing word-for-word. > > Hmm... so you go faster when you type "word for word" (i.e. when you > type more)? What's the benefit of only typing the consonants, then? When I type, I have my eyes closed, and touch-type, so the typing speed is always the same, it is fast (way faster than when I first learned to type a long, long time ago). It doesn't seem to be a limiting factor for me because I've been doing it for a long time. The issue I'm trying to manage here my mental stamina. I call that my mental budget. For example if I'm going to dictate a 2h lecture then I have a budget of 100 Euros When I type word-for-word it is very accurate. In my mind I hear the words, and see them, and type them out as correctly as possible. It makes for dictation that is very close to perfect. It has a high cost though per word to get that accuracy. Say that it in total costs me 87 Euros. That doesn't leave much room for issues. I don't have any room in the budget for noise or light distractions, or losing attention to the speaker, or having a difficult time understanding what the speaker just said (either the pronunciation or the word or idea itself). Everything has to go nearly perfectly. Those remaining 13 Euros handle some error but not much. When I type word-for-word in this scenario I'll spend nearly 100 Euros. Even if I spend less, it leaves my bank account pretty low. That makes corrections difficult, I'm out of mental budget by the end of the lecture. Even lectures in the next session or day become more difficult for me. This is my experience not theory. My goal is to minimize spending of my mental budget. To answer your question, when I only type consonants, I "see less letters" in my mind, and also, I don't have to be so worried about getting them written down perfectly. When I transcribe with that approach, and see words in my mind such as "the, like, every" it probably doesn't need such attention to details because "t, lk, evy" are just as easy to recognize when you are reading the entire sentence. It uses less of my mental budget to do this. I don't have "think so hard". So, why am I even talking about typing word-for-word in the first place? When I get fatigued or don't catch a word or get distracted or just don't know how I want to or am going to simplify something and have to really think about it then it is more mentally taxing for me. The easiest thing to do in that case is to just type it word-for-word. For example an important word like "equanimity" pops up. The word is to "different" for me, it is interesting, not boring or simple, it makes me think. It takes too much mental budget to think about it for one or two seconds to find a simplification that is good enough. My immediate reaction is that I don't have a simplification for it, so I will just type it. That is the only way that I can keep up (later on I would see that "eqnmty" would be fine). The problem is that the surprises start to push the budget down and it is not a linear drop. As I get more fatigued my performance gets worse and the slow downs start to snowball. Of course there will always be interesting, not common or trivial words, and that is where I would want a mode to modify them at that moment. These aren't surprising cases, just normal ones. I want the mode to make it easier every place that it can. > > In those cases, I don't want to have to go back over the document to > > clean it up. That is why I was thinking about the mode "looking back > > at the last two words or so" to do the right thing to them. > > You can also do that as a separate processing step, rather than doing it > "on the fly", right? Yes absolutely. If I could automate it though I want that correction step performed immediately for two reasons. #1 "it will look how it should look" at that moment because inevitably I will have a moment here and there to review what I wrote down and it would be easier for me to see it in its final form. #2 my mental budget runs out very very quickly so if I don't have to do a separate step it will save funds for the next lecture or day. I feel like it is important to share a /little/ bit of the context here... I'm not pursuing this "just for the fun of it" or for words-per-minute bragging rights or just making note taking sort of easier (each of which I endorse 100% in their own right!). But rather it is to implement a compensation strategy for a cognitive processing deficit that a lot of people unexpectedly come to face today. That is why I keep talking about the budget and sort of saving every Euro wherever I can. It isn't a hyper-optimization for sake of optimization. It is trying to manage a reduced mental budget in a way that lets you participate in the life activities that you were able to before. Every single penny matters here. After doing a week of learning it will take another week just to recover from that even if it goes "perfectly". Based on my research, that list of stuff is the best potential approach out there: there just wasn't anything else out there. That is why I am relying so much on my experience and imagination here. There is probably a lot more to it. For example, I just realized that I never considered how to handle proper nouns uugghh! My motivation is huge. When you are in this situation switching to Colemak or learning stenography just isn't an option. A lot of people can benefit from something here, millions. Specifically in the situation where you can perform at this level if you heavily budget. It probably doesn't sound like a big deal, but if it could be done then it would help out so much. Just need to figure out what that something looks like first! :)