From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jason Yamada-Hanff Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: General advice beyond Org Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:32:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <7dc580d0ea76c21328dc586ffadb5499@openmail.cc> <20180518153157.GA18154@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526663660 23783 195.159.176.226 (18 May 2018 17:14:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 17:14:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: "Alan E. Davis" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 18 19:14:16 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fJixL-00063j-Et for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 19:14:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40084 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJizS-0005ER-Hu for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 13:16:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54426) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJiJ1-0000rd-RA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:32:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJiJ0-0002S7-4y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:32:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ot0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d]:44781) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJiIz-0002Rp-Sw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:32:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id g7-v6so9773364otj.11 for ; Fri, 18 May 2018 09:32:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rsBSWCvySVqwLmelIBPMdi5CqSQdl8kn5QavS4g54Lw=; b=VMBlRMs6x5YZ0XLjEhgyrQmoY4JDwS8bPvKZX003hr2VoBd71aAw4KeGd8TgPagjXL /NBQfoNDIlRSovuIIIz+PTS25jh//Y6XjCt+cfwZapHZk7ukL9qt2xSerYhfdhW4zIt8 QxfNlq5GmkJtfn/Z0wGdNRW7z6bV4GEddBnMoLDtXsts+Ig/93LiltjH5vGunanYAP1a r+gyTzUD/gYPPg45MAOt2J3v1LpK315B6wQvN7KAXLYxzW1Al8COIhgL6/jo1axHjb8W PtPzy8lx776Sr3vDa5yJIe3j2qW3o0DyTI+nJix2RvfkEPIgC4J4ZjM4wkAkxkr9YP3o eXNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rsBSWCvySVqwLmelIBPMdi5CqSQdl8kn5QavS4g54Lw=; b=km3SsLd6XnpH+J37nQwmfWsw/LF1ywjV8wUEzb3XfidHzcl0kaa6GJtYfaP/7Rixwz e4znedB6qo15gRaHQznIpjmQ1kRUfZWzl3hA21tMaOlIv6kDVd/Y0x4mTeJbZbF3Sn0s wCMRHcov+wCFky86Lv8RLwFbqPvc9GF5qVx6+A9uaEzClT10GuUq1xTtXb4+2STICds3 qASXTNXbbMGAqd5Ibpue83Lf0Kd8XHs4+Ys73308exO6rod+blfirF0jMrHwpBtnN9kI TmXv93QS1jsuXbnA/GmiFGwivpGyC9WDcsyz57we+pNlHV0I18wZT5YS8d2PRJtphI5X wz8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPwfOR/QxDtIrsgQCvv3cc9c0hdsz05+4SpEWuuGv3Qo1DORurHs1 S8gD75P3GsajCL8SML+SbrVuAIo1vTiYvC7M+Wo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZr9Z+QDydAxhgjiqhbw70OVQNNB+8+WUHTKHs/0bdGYUvmYIMGJNQGBjm1RIhN6zza3a7qvuJFpm/9r1fvLiMo= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:2c64:: with SMTP id f91-v6mr6506937otb.263.1526661152741; Fri, 18 May 2018 09:32:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 18 May 2018 13:15:55 -0400 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116771 Archived-At: Don't die on this hill. Collaborating with others, especially superiors, means sometimes adjusting. I split the difference in grad school and used emacs and other free software where I could and MS where it made collaboration possible. My first piece of writing was handed to my advisor as LaTeX. He asked me to convert it to Word, and I did. I wrote my thesis in LaTeX. When we turned a chapter into a paper, I converted it to Word before we started collaborating on it. When I handed him my lab notebook as a series of org-mode files he could search instantly by text, he liked that. Sometimes you win. Your professors arguments are good. Her tools work well for her. Why should she switch to new ones? Your moral principles aren't going to have a lot of away. Further, git and other version control does not provide the full features of Track Changes in Word. Sent from phone On Fri, May 18, 2018, 9:20 AM Alan E. Davis wrote: > I worked as a teacher in a school in a third world context, where the > district was severely underfunded. I held out as much as I could. I had > to use proprietary systems, eventually, to report attendance and grades, = so > I installed Virtual Box. It was a long and hard battle: printer drivers > were not up to snuff; networking was difficult compared to the M$ > approach. Back in the day---I started using GNU/Linux in the pre-1.0 > kernel days---many things did not work smoothly, but the Linux > Documentation Project was a breath of fresh air, and a beam of light > enlightened the scene. (As an aside, I note with misgivings that the LDP > is not well maintained---but I am partially responsible for this, because= I > didn't work on documentation as perhaps I ought to have. Then again, the > state of the "Linux Desktop" is such that other supports are available an= d > many of the hands on configuration and administration tasks are either > automatic or much simpler and more intuitive.). > > I would suggest, in your context, that you do not have to abandon free > software, nor, I sense, are you advised to refuse to use the infrastructu= re > that has been given. I use emacs for much, I really like org-mode a lot > and even thought I am not able to take advantage of many of the more > sophisticated tools of org-mode. You may find, like many before you, tha= t > the tools of free and open source software many streamline your workflow, > and give you an edge, even while you are using the ordained tools for you= r > specific disciplinary work. When people see that the free and open tools > work for you, gradually you may make inroads, and not at the expense of > your career. > > I believe this approach has been behind much of the achieved success of > Free and Open Source software and operating systems. > > I am rooting for you. > > Alan Davis > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 8:31 AM, wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 08:50:32AM -0500, Kevin Buchs wrote: > > > As a student, you simply need to go along with your supervisor's > > > recommendations. You are not in a position to dictate the terms. > > > > Nobody talks about dictating anything. Some supervisors are more > > enlightened than other, so trying to talk to them doesn't seem > > wrong. > > > > > Using the > > > proprietary tools will not hurt you, unless you need to buy your own. > > > > With that I disagree strongly: free is not primarily about price > > (more so in the OP's case, as he stated clearly). Reducing "free" > > to price totally misses the point, IMO. > > > > [...] > > > > > So, you need to adjust your attitude. It may be that you are presenti= ng > > the > > > issue of principles - I prefer free, you prefer proprietary, but that > is > > > not really the true issue. Maybe you don't know the proprietary tools > and > > > don't want to learn them or feel you can't learn them. Choice of tool= s > > you > > > use is no reason to switch graduate programs. > > > > This whole paragraph comes across as somewhat... condescending. > > > > > This is entirely a matter of getting along with other people, not bei= ng > > > selfish, etc. These are life skills we are talking about. > > > > Definitely. And part of this getting along is trying to negotiate > > what matters to oneself and to others. I do agree that an intransigent > > attitude isn't helpful, but Edgar didn't show something like that. > > > > Fostering free software is exactly about "not being selfish". > > > > Cheers > > - -- tom=C3=A1s > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAlr+8e0ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kax+wCfbKhTlIUw6n2SL106P2GgS4qa > > SWYAnjKwfLqGw5KnPqBCPPb1GHutiLfQ > > =3DszdJ > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > > > -- > [Fill in the blanks] > > The use of corrupt manipulations and blatant rhetorical ploys ...--- > outright lying, flagwaving, personal attacks, setting up phony > alternatives, misdirection, jargon-mongering, evading key issues, feignin= g > disinterested objectivity, willful misunderstanding of other points of > view---suggests that ... lacks both credibility and evidence. > > ---- Edward Tufte (in context of making presentations) >