Re: on adding a function call to a s-exp

["João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>]

Sorry Drew, this was a very long-winded way to not an answer a
simple question.

I understand you just don't like Emacs guessing your intentions.
That's just fine.  I asked you for the sake of improving e-p-m *for
other users* if you could provide an example where it didn't correctly
guess your intentions.  Something like "Oh I wanted to put a x-and-y
here and your naughty package put it there instead". That was all I
asked.

What's more, the reason I ask this is because I completely agree
with you on your DWIM/sweep-up-the-droppings stance.

João

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

> > > FWIW (he ducks), I work with a Lispy language, Elisp ;-).  And I
> > > don't use any "structured-editing" feature (crutch / ball-&-chain)
> > > such as `paredit' or `electric-pair-mode'.  I'm non-electric all
> > > the way.
> > >
> > > To me, having an editor automatically insert a closing delimiter
> > > each time I type an opening delimiter is a bother, not an aid.
> >
> > For the sake of improving electric-pair-mode, can you explain exactly
> > when/under what conditions it is a bother?
>
> A bother _to me_.  People are different.  People use Emacs
> differently.
>
> To me, it's a bother to care about the inserted closing
> delimiters and where they might currently be - they just
> get in my way.
>
> I think that if you go the route of using such
> delimiter-balancing "aids" you need to do it whole-hog.
> The ability to have things automatically closed for you
> _necessitates_ slurping, barfing, etc.
>
> What you see as convenience, I see as workaround hacks,
> needed only because you've turned on automatically closing
> delimiters.
>
> If things are pre-closed then, yes, of course you need
> commands to pull stuff inside the closings and push stuff
> outside the closings.  You want to add a list element?
> OK, now you have to insert it before the proper closing
> paren.
>
> I don't want Emacs to assume where/when I want to close
> a list, vector, string, etc.  I'll close it where/when
> I want.
>
> With Emacs it's _trivial_ to see which closing delimiter
> corresponds to which opening delimiter.  If this were
> not easy to see then, sure, maybe there would be a stronger
> case for automatically inserting closing delimiters.
>
> In Emacs it's almost impossible to accidentally leave
> something unclosed or to close something in the wrong
> place.  Automatic closing?  YAGNI.
>
> > I'm asking because that's precisely what electric-pair-mode attempts: It
> > *doesn't* insert a closing delimiter "each time", only when it guesses
> > that it will not bother you.  If it is mis-guessing some situation I
> > would very much like to know about it.
>
> FWIW: DWIM too often really means _not_ "Do what I mean"
> but "Do what some programmer thought would be cool to
> guess I might mean."
>
> I don't want Mr. Electric trying to second-guess where/when
> I want to close something.  I don't need that kind of "help".
>
> It's easier for me to know whether a paren is escaped or
> inside a string or whatever than it is for some "smart"
> code.  I know my intentions.  DWIM code can only guess
> my intentions.  And when it guesses wrong I need to go
> behind it an sweep up the droppings.
>
> But as I say, everyone's different.  It's _good_, not bad,
> that such electric-delimiter modes exist.  I don't argue
> against them.  With Emacs, anyone can get what s?he wants.
>



-- 
João Távora