From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Wally Lepore Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: IDE versus emacs Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 15:41:23 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83d30y87yi.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1349401887 24521 80.91.229.3 (5 Oct 2012 01:51:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 01:51:27 +0000 (UTC) To: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 05 03:51:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TJx3s-0005tv-2X for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:50:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42236 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TJrIb-00020U-LY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:41:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:40429) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TJrIV-0001zh-N4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:41:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TJrIU-00069h-Br for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:41:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oa0-f41.google.com ([209.85.219.41]:58092) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TJrIS-00068V-5f; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:41:24 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id k14so1051463oag.0 for ; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:41:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=yqgW5Y8Z4IM262qFnyxKb5l5T4XAFTm6OoTX/Yvi4nE=; b=M8M2Rr/Ub2Gu6g7nETZcFABNK3vFSKpkeozg2eWlctH/nvuudYhoL2WVmhbgWfzsCX EnuwBxAjlWyZXgBoumE2MykOI02ivirwNtxmiGbj1mvj3FHk1dA6rbv9QST0KCIGWz0Q b4WieXi/T6h8lzW/A4n5joo15cuaFDXeBTtcayvnBo0VrGPAYLmCtNYGixe/bGaNfwA0 KGOAyQ58jWUgGKhiQ4kxGL9j/5F3/FmRutoVuH48wnNAdCfGjWJHo6ZMsbuXvMAhTFqP LwSjM0TDLpwg+5YrL8j6klePClBYO4WEjq+bWXAmQsBGaSsRbmmWGIalWWgYRWCIDjfU zkZg== Original-Received: by 10.60.31.198 with SMTP id c6mr5204938oei.112.1349379683323; Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.76.150.7 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:41:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83d30y87yi.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.219.41 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:87053 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:26 PM > From:, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:48:49 -0400 >> From: Wally Lepore >> >> So far I have learned that the following combination of tools for >> windows win32 platform x32 (i.e.win2k, winXP and win7) could be a >> start but perhaps some are not needed. >> >> Text Editor: emacs >> GUI Builder: GTK+2 or Glade >> Compiler: MinGW >> Debugger: ? > > GDB, of course, available for download from the MinGW site. Nothing > else will debug GCC-generated programs as efficiently as GDB does. > Emacs includes a front end for it, as I'm sure you know. Thank you Eli. Yes this sure looks like the real deal for sure. Thank you very much. However I will most certainly have further questions after this initial reply please and would like to know if this is the proper mailing list to continue on with this thread/question? If not, can you please direct me to the proper mailing list? I certainly don't prefer to drag you thru all questions involved in the install process as I will most certainly do my homework first before asking. I assume this is the home page for MinGW -> http://mingw.org/ Is GDB part of the download for MinGW? I found the separate download for GDB here -> http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/download/ Also, getting back to MinGW please. I found this interesting link http://mingw.org/wiki/New_to_MinGW and it appears they are suggesting I download and install additional files. Part of the page said: -- begin -- Download and extract Because there are many things to use (compiler, linker, utils, API, etc.) you need to download several files: - gcc the compiler - mingwrt the Mingw Runtime system - w32api the Windows Application Programming Interface - binutils linker, profiling, windows resources, etc. - make which gathers all "things to do" to achieve your program - gdb a great debugger to look inside your app while it is running The complete name for each file to download includes its version. You can also download the MinGW-xxx.exe file, and let it download the rest, but probably it doesn't download the last version of each file. The new mingw-get intaller will improve this situation when it becomes available. Files are compressed in Unix style: .tar.gz -- end -- >> Linker: ? > > GNU Binutils, from MinGW. You have no other choices if your compiler > is GCC. Ok, then I assume GNU Binutils is included in MinGW? On MinGW's web site it said: -- begin -- Primarily intended for use by developers working on the native MS-Windows platform, but also available for cross-hosted use, (see note below -- you may need to follow the "read more" link to see it), MinGW includes: - A port of the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), including C, C++, ADA and Fortran compilers; - GNU Binutils for Windows (assembler, linker, archive manager) - A command-line installer (mingw-get) for MinGW and MSYS deployment on MS-Windows - A GUI wrapper (mingw-get-inst) for the command line installer -- end -- >> Standard "C" Library: ? > > Windows comes with one already, so you don't need anything. MinGW > runtime and headers come with a small set of additional functions that > are missing or grossly misfeatured in the MS-provided standard library > that is part of Windows. Ok, but it sure sounds scary having to rely on Windows C Library. I guess I should be ok with it....... correct? > Be sure to download also these important tools: > > ID-Utils > Findutils > Make > Grep > > and learn about etags and ebrowse that come with Emacs (if you didn't > know about them already). Ok, studying now. Thank you. >> I also located the links below for GNU tools for windows (not sure if >> I need any of these). >> http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages.html >> http://www.gnutoolchains.com/ > > These are old and unmaintained. Some of them are even badly broken. > I recommend to look on the MinGW site first, and then here: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/ezwinports/files/ Yes I see lots of files. I have no idea what they are utilized for but I will study and find out. Also Eli, I have little experience with working in a console environment. I have been successfully working through the learning process in regards to how-to verify downloaded files and checksums using md5sum and md5sums programs in the command line. No problem. I also have many DOS books from "back in the day" to refer to which I have benn studying much lately. Will the set-up scenario you kindly discussed above be too overwhelming for a newbie programmer like myself or would I be better off simply starting with installing an IDE already set-up to run on win32 platform such as Code::Blocks, Code Lite, lcc-win32 etc.where all procedures are accomplished in the same window? I understand the drawback to utilizing a complete package associated with an IDE is that a lot of the procedures and tools are automatically executed for the user. Most times, the user has no idea that a particular tool is actually running a process. At least with your recommended tools (above), I would know why a particular tool is in my tool box and what its used for and when to use it. I would understand the whole process better. Its just the installation part that I would be most concerned with. If I could survive it. Thank you for your patience Eli Wally