From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bithov Vinu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Using unmaintained plugins Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 21:16:32 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87o8ea9376.fsf@mbork.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12626"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis To: Bithov Vinu , Marcin Borkowski , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 19 23:07:34 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lYb7G-0003Cx-Pd for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 23:07:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49050 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYb7F-0002Zh-IK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 17:07:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60678) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYaK7-0000mu-JA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:16:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c]:35685) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lYaK5-0008D1-Pe for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 16:16:47 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id q10so25048033pgj.2 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:16:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ASFLxS6GhQ8vOeiLiAFKJrZdVjPhvKbvTRFgNfXAsHk=; b=TTZ3xw1v6ZsXa6JAKpe0PURnydLhcPTL4kqEi01XXAjtXT4m1kTkhriTu8l8WwgWRX CdGJ4EkcEMtSC4SwAoAVj3s+EBag+WDK7W5iqQsynlIVYUjnK+xFOnFivklCh5pgQ5kd LYUm8E9UtkUMXmOeikM89m1m5nTDshQBlF25XpXPjZ4Agrry03YNCmjffdK3d2NV8sz7 ZdC15E/xQAfjUDA/GmcIiFJLP6Ilf6QiwKd+MBKbjicy/eJDXMrctZMZnyfwDovy1NS/ NlkgWp6sdHJLvNYzbOJIYl76aU+Ba7U8U2t+3mRegmkSdm5C7/A8BZfbbKXLB+rxfSIQ 9qyQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ASFLxS6GhQ8vOeiLiAFKJrZdVjPhvKbvTRFgNfXAsHk=; b=H2Uy7wiEH8q3KklKKzXNVCXqwKHSECcx5COwPi5blIQTH+YVtJlcTLPfX29W6Tm1Gh 53bhSMyyp711jwr1X7PJUkxTMwZDDC3dMUo2ZNYKwZHn+OEq9mvdmshp43RguBmKIKLk i/DoG342kNGpaHgRsNKjl+usgPb3PKU0E95lgXmQ+PkrsSCyUDUCCxVpxufxb7+uDb/P KhKY9cVUBI1br4wqv9hmADK1PrwmLvuz8hVcoFLTWmX6T546G0bKy6OqPlu1h6dv+tWd SNHAhJjHHAX0jR0VUNtAYdVNzbtiiq98OqNq3AsVOT114iko/3RHyaxWowhR+oT5S39P IZPg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530t7TnL+AupjH8nw0t5pSGJ8IfBFbpk6rvlv4T0b5oftagMzUya VFtAiJdIJ/y3fm92UdNF/k8hjZ9Z+MLP1RvsNsI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx7eY+EElhRimkHco8OG3UG/sleAAspO6TJP8nItTRZrDj7i9B1tNXsvf9lqZlYC1Vf0g33kX8EzvNxbrnEKZU= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:842c:0:b029:251:7caf:1017 with SMTP id q12-20020aa7842c0000b02902517caf1017mr21561467pfn.79.1618863404216; Mon, 19 Apr 2021 13:16:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52c; envelope-from=bithov.vinub@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:129083 Archived-At: I will most certainly look into the book you referred - as soon as I get through my current backlog :) I'm not certain that you understand what the Supermemo method is. It lies on the following principles: 1) memory decays at a predictable, rapid rate 2) review reduces the rate of forgetting 3) review at too early or late a time results in excess repetitions or forgetting of knowledge respectively (Those axioms aren't entirely true; when digging into the research you find that frequent, early repetition negatively impacts the rate of forgetting later on, but for the sake of argument, we'll ignore this) The Supermemo algorithm is simply a mathematical method of attempting to calculate the optimum interval for review, from the most crude and simple SM-0 to SM-2 (used in Anki/Mnemosyne) to SM-5 (org-drill) to SM-18, the latest iteration. It isn't a mnemonic in any sense of the word - I hope that you can explain how you understand the Supermemo method to be like a mnemonic. You are most certainly right that the articles I linked may be biased - of course, the latest iterations of Supermemo are pieces of proprietary non-free software, and, ultimately, Piotr Wozniak's motives will always be to sell you the software that he wrote and invested his time into. There are definitely some snake-oil-like stuff on supermemo.guru, but a lot of the claims Dr Wozniak makes in reference to memory and forgetting are scientifically sound (for proof of this, I'd advise you read the Gwern article I originally linked; Gwern Branwen is an independent researcher and his article is richly referenced and makes conclusions based plenty of peer reviewed research). I can't say I've done an extensive review of Harry Lorayne's work, but from the bits that I've seen, I'm skeptical. I'm immediately distrustful of someone for unbiased information if their occupation is professional magician, even more so when he has written books with titles as sensational and frankly nonsensical as "How to develop a Super Power Memory", "Harry Lorayne's Secrets of Mind Power", "Memory makes money" and, my personal favourite, "How to get rich using the power of your mind". Now, I might be overly skeptical, but I generally disregard sensationalised books written by someone with seemingly no credentials whatsoever in favour of huge bodies of peer-reviewed evidence. You are most certainly right that associations underlie all memory - the 20 rules of formulating knowledge relies on this fact. I think you may have misunderstood the article; what Dr Wozniak means by "do not memorise what you do not understand", he means, do not repeat using the Supermemo method, what hasn't already been put into memory through traditional means. Mnemonics are definitely useful - I don't think I've ever argued that they aren't, instead, what I'm arguing is that they aren't a panacea to an indestructible memory. I'd also like to dismiss this understanding of my points being exclusive to me and supermemo.guru - they're not, these are well documented theories and evidence-based conclusions.