From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Alan E. Davis" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: General advice beyond Org Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:22:44 -0700 Message-ID: References: <7dc580d0ea76c21328dc586ffadb5499@openmail.cc> <20180518153157.GA18154@tuxteam.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1526660501 13821 195.159.176.226 (18 May 2018 16:21:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 16:21:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 18 18:21:36 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fJi8O-0003Ui-4C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 18:21:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39879 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJiAV-0005Tj-Bw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:23:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52018) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJi9s-0005Mv-94 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:23:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJi9q-0005D4-HD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:23:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb0-x242.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c09::242]:44521) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fJi9q-0005Cp-A8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 18 May 2018 12:23:06 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb0-x242.google.com with SMTP id s8-v6so1644693ybp.11 for ; Fri, 18 May 2018 09:23:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=AwYoJgpw7vWxn95GwGspSgFNp5rGEmZl20f27eWFapA=; b=ejvTgg0bxKhJicV1wNOz7N/CWMMjuUWch+0oDPNG+NB4O7ZuASGip+VLN1LA6VDyIO SqUPQZd7KZUCNPrzXFfconxDWTKZ0hXl+QcUSaHdBFNGnS3mJKmEN0vAftMsUdpemuYY s+LPO+csF87Ky8m7NdE2MsAgPrg9oW+fVAiUx9mokmS6CEvskPLdCrC2jWRuemDbyHck u7yhjWxGlHqa1+ePutE05+jTZVcTE41sCQFRSRxFpYcxvFwXwEXucuONlResYxzAXCHa tYC1u00K5R2fZNrcCxbG8pGF4k+EMKhElrcBS3aulIpRR62fVRvbgNMVNw31CZl/hc9C zxug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=AwYoJgpw7vWxn95GwGspSgFNp5rGEmZl20f27eWFapA=; b=nQnUDi6wCqOi1Y9sFe0nuOA7rJ9Xj3pkWrY3GtGHn+jvGA2kE2JI6YZ34d0gRCGLQx NxXm9kS6Ltpl48kwnmTTfiYkzPyd5liJZoRB/l6zV1pyHoYx+gTRKS8S/IcGxSSCU42A TCk6hu1Gc91Vl7iLCTWYi8M3P5D/k9uD9Lqiax1ezCs9Fhzwp35Og3GH/m3FGc8BfZ/C 40MxYeyWIOQv4woc7OR9MKkTpXfqK0pwfaxPWc+ktTSyxKUQt5asihEmkdkTggGNRQtt +kyCigG+/pBScTmBC1HJA0fL7JiJebxZ71IrQdqXiri1AyAQ1IPyOgpQH+GTB2/3V9d6 FzYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALKqPweLeCafSarhfjsSnzw5LlVJJRw7CbzVyIGZPF34iu8xo2I8UinJ 9sjV8M/AKhD+OJxNB9CtsRFNf77MnPKIv/Kevws= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZp29TK3MGclEbkc24XGg+Wbunxkwyz1wrqtymayFay4eKSWEwz/eQQ8IwHK0qfxjLKKlU4gEpzOMnkUuKAA+Wo= X-Received: by 2002:a25:810e:: with SMTP id o14-v6mr5619940ybk.122.1526660585483; Fri, 18 May 2018 09:23:05 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 2002:a25:3909:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Fri, 18 May 2018 09:22:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4002:c09::242 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.21 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:116770 Archived-At: I failed to mention in my previous message that the powers that be in the underfunded district where I worked were fully on board with the proprietary tools that they had been given in colleges and high schools. After a few years, I held a workshop and several teachers were able to install Ubuntu, some of whom may be working with GNU/Linux today. Alan On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:19 AM, Alan E. Davis wrote: > I worked as a teacher in a school in a third world context, where the > district was severely underfunded. I held out as much as I could. I had > to use proprietary systems, eventually, to report attendance and grades, = so > I installed Virtual Box. It was a long and hard battle: printer drivers > were not up to snuff; networking was difficult compared to the M$ > approach. Back in the day---I started using GNU/Linux in the pre-1.0 > kernel days---many things did not work smoothly, but the Linux > Documentation Project was a breath of fresh air, and a beam of light > enlightened the scene. (As an aside, I note with misgivings that the LDP > is not well maintained---but I am partially responsible for this, because= I > didn't work on documentation as perhaps I ought to have. Then again, the > state of the "Linux Desktop" is such that other supports are available an= d > many of the hands on configuration and administration tasks are either > automatic or much simpler and more intuitive.). > > I would suggest, in your context, that you do not have to abandon free > software, nor, I sense, are you advised to refuse to use the infrastructu= re > that has been given. I use emacs for much, I really like org-mode a lot > and even thought I am not able to take advantage of many of the more > sophisticated tools of org-mode. You may find, like many before you, tha= t > the tools of free and open source software many streamline your workflow, > and give you an edge, even while you are using the ordained tools for you= r > specific disciplinary work. When people see that the free and open tools > work for you, gradually you may make inroads, and not at the expense of > your career. > > I believe this approach has been behind much of the achieved success of > Free and Open Source software and operating systems. > > I am rooting for you. > > Alan Davis > > > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 8:31 AM, wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 08:50:32AM -0500, Kevin Buchs wrote: >> > As a student, you simply need to go along with your supervisor's >> > recommendations. You are not in a position to dictate the terms. >> >> Nobody talks about dictating anything. Some supervisors are more >> enlightened than other, so trying to talk to them doesn't seem >> wrong. >> >> > Using the >> > proprietary tools will not hurt you, unless you need to buy your own. >> >> With that I disagree strongly: free is not primarily about price >> (more so in the OP's case, as he stated clearly). Reducing "free" >> to price totally misses the point, IMO. >> >> [...] >> >> > So, you need to adjust your attitude. It may be that you are presentin= g >> the >> > issue of principles - I prefer free, you prefer proprietary, but that = is >> > not really the true issue. Maybe you don't know the proprietary tools >> and >> > don't want to learn them or feel you can't learn them. Choice of tools >> you >> > use is no reason to switch graduate programs. >> >> This whole paragraph comes across as somewhat... condescending. >> >> > This is entirely a matter of getting along with other people, not bein= g >> > selfish, etc. These are life skills we are talking about. >> >> Definitely. And part of this getting along is trying to negotiate >> what matters to oneself and to others. I do agree that an intransigent >> attitude isn't helpful, but Edgar didn't show something like that. >> >> Fostering free software is exactly about "not being selfish". >> >> Cheers >> - -- tom=C3=A1s >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAlr+8e0ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kax+wCfbKhTlIUw6n2SL106P2GgS4qa >> SWYAnjKwfLqGw5KnPqBCPPb1GHutiLfQ >> =3DszdJ >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> > > > -- > [Fill in the blanks] > > The use of corrupt manipulations and blatant rhetorical ploys ...--- > outright lying, flagwaving, personal attacks, setting up phony > alternatives, misdirection, jargon-mongering, evading key issues, feignin= g > disinterested objectivity, willful misunderstanding of other points of > view---suggests that ... lacks both credibility and evidence. > > ---- Edward Tufte (in context of making presentations) > > > --=20 [Fill in the blanks] The use of corrupt manipulations and blatant rhetorical ploys ...--- outright lying, flagwaving, personal attacks, setting up phony alternatives, misdirection, jargon-mongering, evading key issues, feigning disinterested objectivity, willful misunderstanding of other points of view---suggests that ... lacks both credibility and evidence. ---- Edward Tufte (in context of making presentations)