From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : Re: How to make M-x TAB not work on (interactive) declaration? Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 23:37:50 -0300 Message-ID: References: <874jt0imh0.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87r0vuidjc.fsf@eder.anydns.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8144"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Andreas Eder , Anders Munch , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 17 03:38:51 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pHbsB-0001xH-3B for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 03:38:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHbrT-0008IE-UR; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:38:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHbrS-0008Hs-MD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:38:06 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb35.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHbrQ-00037L-O8 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 21:38:06 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb35.google.com with SMTP id p188so32400677yba.5 for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 18:38:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=k76hV/A1go3rne6gt1pJhFrZWx0n9rjeAUfmCkrNg40=; b=B0VWTpI1LfeHEYX7lHe0pCI4qmtXKFBu8B3HDNbammpwc2vs9I8OZnxOwkDq3xxSfw sgeDIl+XXbMPuxZuptxqcTHsSeMuxrhJGKoLURyU2uHQL8ceYBFXCSrdAPtezWOluFJA 2W8D6bkPYT6B5i2NSjulsmvgOj5WmRPDmQDb3iNeVPRaStFTH/H00gXGVGP9fbbJdPqw sNjDck6RPle4O29+qg1XrDgbANKEOoBSVsGM1Chu1T6T//+ZBWybtf1iVYSKmQiHagTf 5EnZsGdihFqmy+FJwDL3Md/3JMWODx/234dWFCeQ0TizpbZTCe9z4UrG3jUOVr2fY+e2 i9AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=k76hV/A1go3rne6gt1pJhFrZWx0n9rjeAUfmCkrNg40=; b=WeILrFWxm5k/t/a5rT4BAm2GfmH6bFasQLvxYzulE2tqOwEfZ42Menn4fVa1DddBqv ThG10wm+jpVCJrJwP+u1tT/c0nPCYzNRDwUEO8fcxhBr1ads+Sq+5Ku/JZJgNx8nRcUO QoKDHx/w3inlT7pS3p4XBXNFIO+3/Stm1GuCLlN4obM/0Li74z2aN6Gxd1ktx+tdMwfg Y4rlN4jGvRqZjuZUAHLgvvN3Rn3JN6xNYL4Qn1+tv4bvQqHDC0yNeuYWSzOFRZjducHK b//hNzcPTF4wo2xvBocRL5HY/7YVqkg6YjRE8fXe2GqnvHwNVvII+9Ok0GvH2FXCqn9r IUhA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kr1SKLDvLIiPdmyfcL3x5JTX0xnmVAnkTpcSzHK3cK++rA3eSpq Azl3y+0I3n5oBrAmeBo2YaIg+PlldxYKtRhAmH8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXtmrHZlhszAiuWXJwKUL1R/mWOMgos6Rr7SPp/TyW5zqotGdDEZJ7J81ExyCLpZ6AcDHko06PWZaQg7O+atcEg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:428f:0:b0:7c3:ee90:475e with SMTP id p137-20020a25428f000000b007c3ee90475emr244005yba.160.1673923083044; Mon, 16 Jan 2023 18:38:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b35; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb35.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142294 Archived-At: On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 15:56, Jean Louis wrote: > > * Andreas Eder [2023-01-16 20:42]: > > > Maybe you know some reference to Lisp beginning why is it so? > > > > See http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pl.htm for > > #'+ and http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_st.htm > > for #'*. > > Thanks. > > "Returns the product of numbers, performing any necessary type > conversions in the process. If no numbers are supplied, 1 is > returned." > > I understand 1 is returned, yet I am still searching for purpose. > > For now vague purpose is only to satisfy some other functions which > process lists, like `reduce' or `apply', I am searching for > confirmation if that was the sole purpose. Hi Jean, a few months ago I had to prepare some figures to explain to my students what should be the "neutral elements" for some operations... The main idea is that we want all these expressions to yield the same result, including the two last ones, that are weird, (+ (+ 2 2) (+ 2 2 2 2 2)) (+ (+ 2 2 2) (+ 2 2 2 2)) (+ (+ 2 2 2 2) (+ 2 2 2)) (+ (+ 2 2 2 2 2) (+ 2 2)) (+ (+ 2 2 2 2 2 2) (+ 2)) (+ (+ 2 2 2 2 2 2 2) (+)) and the same thing for these expressions: (* (* 2 2) (* 2 2 2 2 2)) (* (* 2 2 2) (* 2 2 2 2)) (* (* 2 2 2 2) (* 2 2 2)) (* (* 2 2 2 2 2) (* 2 2)) (* (* 2 2 2 2 2 2) (* 2)) (* (* 2 2 2 2 2 2 2) (*)) My figures are in the pages 86 and 87 of this PDF, http://angg.twu.net/LATEX/2022-2-C2-tudo.pdf#page=86 and my real objective was to convince them that we had very good reasons to decide that the result of (or) should be false the result of (and) should be true, and then extend these ideas to "for all" and "exists". Cheers, Eduardo