From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Morally equivalent Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:47:29 -0300 Message-ID: References: <87y1tfzhzm.fsf@undisclosedlocation.com> <877d0zfjqa.fsf@web.de> <87h703e445.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7895"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Christopher Dimech , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 17 01:48:15 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1okDMc-0001p2-Tx for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Oct 2022 01:48:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34952 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okDMb-0002MU-Ip for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:48:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46182) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okDM9-0002ML-Au for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:47:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]:43823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okDM7-00040w-7H for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:47:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id q11so5085266ilj.10 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 16:47:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NhRwdKAjjz6Qts3eRVZz8vangNbW3w+V+FE6WR087CY=; b=TUIyRO0gBXt6tLCNtZr4EEeIcMKep5/2NPu6vXKza07V+5QhpuMnb5kkUpauopCyUL e3zSALi9yLUK4CxF5pIz9L+p/esI39PmWTaMOsqPbq5bk5IA9mgV/KnNjp7oSPjE854H gsidMRA/dW57yPnmdXMn8be8tehqwQu9w8cnV72P/RyhNxGdUO7Wv8fsptmHYBzO0uAz Ib36EtLm777ZZA8MXxobiVsqeCJZ0AfSdzrMdwzps3qxM/C88R3NlxZ4wD9AH2Km4UCW ECo/7mYdaEctCIs8E677u7IBz3q0dEMcXdN53f3wxzGQVgoX7mGFZu0pCXqQC2TCuGoA R0zQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=NhRwdKAjjz6Qts3eRVZz8vangNbW3w+V+FE6WR087CY=; b=y9xQujR8vS5/SSbGO1txr3df0aE8x2oPYsbypSPfIXvHwNSg5cw8auS3iGCafEagxm DnsUIukuCIqlMA6qO+J9pbE1sAha7D6RrFTOH4k1gv4kdIt37flDyTCmzWxEDlDsg0tb jnvkg9tAvQQcG76NVH7C+VC+d4SbX2uR34zMBl+IRhlIANib3aM1L1//TdmiUgbyS6CE ydMU5dDuUxBSNrabc6cnrbxLfPsgtkA4BFE0EBNuk5nbO2b867YDU+ypBq/9Sdyp0zYf s+0k0gHyzb+6fQ9JtBvE579S1dYGXUAXMgmMeZku2MihTaPC4hgMV4TIUD4KDBrByfie dqyg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0BhakBVY8qJWCZrG3O1s1SIgAhjGpFyvDWTxx/zNyAH0OhJdMp 8VqsI5z+1k95CRPiBuyeGt99VPvMxvcZGMkKNuw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5pbkhB422GFt5Dv+0v1M+BvCoHqua2PuNFW77I2dyuZwC6k1VS12WdFKONBIN6W3tkZ8YhAtAGGYe3XerHAAQ= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1caa:b0:2fd:54e2:ca0a with SMTP id x10-20020a056e021caa00b002fd54e2ca0amr3044297ill.54.1665964061693; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 16:47:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87h703e445.fsf@web.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::129; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x129.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:140028 Archived-At: On Sun, 16 Oct 2022 at 20:34, Michael Heerdegen wrote: > > Christopher Dimech writes: > > > The problem was about the wording, if it turns out Stefan wrote it, then > > he is not above anybody else. The problem is that in some important ways, > > things are not precise. > > Nothing in human language is precise. For me it was precise enough to > understand the meaning perfectly. > > > And users do not like that. > > I liked it. Most people like it much less when Stefan tries to be more > precise. > > Honestly, the only problem with that wording is that it might make > people wonder whether it is some sort of technical term, which it is not > really, so it can potentially confuse people. > > Michael. It is "some sort of technical term": "A source of tension between Philosophers of Mathematics and Mathematicians is the fact that each group feels ignored by the other; daily mathematical practice seems barely affected by the questions the Philosophers are considering. In this talk I will describe an issue that does have an impact on mathematical practice, and a philosophical stance on mathematics that is detectable in the work of practising mathematicians. "No doubt controversially, I will call this issue `morality', but the term is not of my coining: there are mathematicians across the world who use the word `morally' to great effect in private, and I propose that there should be a public theory of what they mean by this. The issue arises because proofs, despite being revered as the backbone of mathematical truth, often contribute very little to a mathematician's understanding. `Moral' considerations, however, contribute a great deal. I will first describe what these `moral' considerations might be, and why mathematicians have appropriated the word `morality' for this notion. However, not all mathematicians are concerned with such notions, and I will give a characterisation of `moralist' mathematics and `moralist' mathematicians, and discuss the development of `morality' in individuals and in mathematics as a whole. Fi- nally, I will propose a theory for standardising or universalising a system of mathematical morality, and discuss how this might help in the development of good mathematics." http://eugeniacheng.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/cheng-morality.pdf [[]] =/, Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/#eev