From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eduardo Ochs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Workshop to save M$ Windows users - help needed Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2021 01:26:59 -0300 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28832"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 03 06:27:44 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWt6F-0007IR-9j for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 06:27:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50278 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWt6D-0002If-ME for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 00:27:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49944) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWt5o-0002Hh-Bs for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 00:27:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f]:36690) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWt5l-0001rT-2R for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 00:27:16 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 75so13345767pga.3 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 21:27:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6Vbt1sdVvspexnHfm0X1VNgqYVXDPnEJNowzdY6xtcM=; b=FHyEexPT6arLAP+HnPZ61d4LnrFXMm+AypgxbWoBqEdTJKLt6zDU34ZpUgKDf51lF5 uZi7datLYnbtr6NyZE6WpTfzXz/TQtIAxlk9xpE/nsldttN+IUGFYtb7vkFX8t2VUI2d RJ/9K3wSwneFnhGGriPMaquS8HSqKSHxMLU27A80dUAuWnkS+KyZcXlWtqz3KxNAuCTK UrFRW2b03OT0uNF6lSvOV8ue6pM9DvrdAD++WN4sQbBstONW+xNC7Z8YgqlZF8WicurT N92sA2+EJJ7ngVUB0nrXMjJmlv+vqGZOHgCu6w2/UwsJx7PalJ2ZuwksTshGD7Jtl+5i Emrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6Vbt1sdVvspexnHfm0X1VNgqYVXDPnEJNowzdY6xtcM=; b=HXXS+IoNuCr3pNt+poqchxgZDWMftGST60hbruqXJsKYr+rh2yqYMGPXH5He8Q9Rax ugsBhI9Z3Y0+JTebbwW+n5YxwBBddemfDEhw1dcm/l8pRC4d4VHpPOD/eHulNMbYAgjt 6+OQzAiloKBn3vq28L6rHjMNoqflssaQQIa99LXzfP9n5hLiQbJC193Yw14HBCqkDUY/ oLdPA3k+YtUW5DO52aTX7UOpXgtJO3FMOSkDDVPN81h9OamRiDXCI8Jd2h5z3ljzh/5J HsvBHSN4SCbVIpg2dwTHI2TIZMjn7ynNnHBRvYbVYJqLpaUDThIzamgJ7o6gnamkZHZ5 aetA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533n5+BJ7BzNBHXlvzTHfoyinpKK3RIpNs3boYthSP3S5n1h1CvZ Gm7CeFz4IQZEQz3uV2eM/Gkqb6FH2KMHVlPdguYI0+qm/kM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxri014+qgIBEFDU3Nnsn4eSgPJmw6u/55D1PMEAr26bns9x0TRCo4PZwkcVa7XzuuVNhneMSkuYZl/IM5OJDE= X-Received: by 2002:a63:1e60:: with SMTP id p32mr5366888pgm.234.1633235230667; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 21:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52f; envelope-from=eduardoochs@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:133506 Archived-At: Hi all, I am preparing a workshop that will be a kind of an introduction to Free Software to people who don't even know how programmers think but who are curious to learn... It will happen by chat - initially on Telegram, but I will try to teach people how to use rcirc - and my main focus will be on: 1. How in Elisp we can do lots of programs that are useful and that fit in just one or two lines, 2. How we can share complete short programs with the other people in the workshop via chat. Parenthesis: I think that this will be the most mind-blowing part of the worshop for most of the participants... I am expecting an audience composed almost exclusively of M$ Windows users - "MWUs" from here onwards - and MWUs usually think that "programs" are huge beasts that only super-nerds that understand, 3. How bigger programs can be built from smaller programs - we will play with some programs that are 5 to 10 lines long and made of several defuns (yaaay!!!) and that are easy to tinker with. What I described above is the part of the workshop that I already know how to teach, or to coordinate - "coordinate" because if everything goes well then I'll have ten people speaking on the chat all at the same time. Now comes that part that I _DON'T_ know how to teach, and in which I would like to ask for help. I don't know how MWUs think. I don't know how they memorize actions that are made of sequences of mouse clicks, I don't know how they take notes, and I don't know how they can deal with programs without having a clear mental model of what they do. I don't interact with them in person close to computers often, but practically every time that they see me using Emacs on my laptop they say "I don't have any idea how you can use that", so they also don't understand how I use the computer and how I think - it's reciprocal. I talked to some MWUs who are interested in the workshop and they don't have any idea of how to use terminals - they think that in order to use a terminal one has to have a prodigious memory and prodigious typing skills. Terminals are COMPLETELY alien to them, and for several of them this is the main reason why they never tried to make their computers dual-boot and to install a GNU/Linux in a partition. I believe that I can use a part of the workshop to show them how we can use something similar to the items (1), (2), and (3) above to run Bash in a shell buffer in Emacs, and to follow a basic tutorial on Bash... and that will make terminals far less alien to them. So - HELP, PLEASE!... I will only be able to do this "now let's do something similar but with a tutorial for a Unix shell!" if I can get bulletproof-ish instructions that they, the MWUs, can follow to install bash and wget in their Windows machines - and the very few MWUs that I have contact with and who are not super-hyper-mega-busy don't even know how to think in terms of full paths... if they download a bash.exe they will think that its "location" is something determined by a series of mouse clicks, they have to struggle really hard to discover the full path to that bash.exe, that will be something like "c:/foo/bar/bash.exe"... and I am afraid that something like "make sure that the bash.exe is in your PATH" would be almost impossibly hard to them... Can we use this thread to discuss possible solutions to that? Here's one idea. I can ask each one of them to run a sexp like this, (insert "\n\n" "MY NAME HERE" "\n" (getenv "PATH") "\n\n") and send me the lines that it produces, and I can write a series of eshell commands to each of the participants - that they will send to eshell using something like this: http://angg.twu.net/IMAGES/2021-square-cube-3.png (Obs: I am trying to learn Inkscape properly to produce lots of figures like the one above... that one, that was my first, took me, huh, I don't know, one hour?...) Thanks in advance!!! Eduardo Ochs http://angg.twu.net/#eev