From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bob Newell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Debunking Emacs merits over GUI - Re: package for Email Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 11:10:51 -1000 Message-ID: References: <20230118180348.gzwvy6iztok45ko3@zoho.com> <20230119161030.vt4muwcdvuwdqmj7@zoho.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33493"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 19 22:11:52 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pIcCO-0008WN-MV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 22:11:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIcBk-00059c-Q9; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:11:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIcBi-00059F-34 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:11:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pIcBd-0005al-Ap for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 16:11:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id j17so2564731wms.0 for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:11:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bobnewell-net.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RUqh7wUlVB/hchJuP9kO52aonFFE8WfVXJq5dcWA5R8=; b=buUYEVM+u6mHPxHONeNOT1810c4db1MwYSFKiShyQbodwkTBPdudgUh3w1BtqVBaCA jhba0Uv/YW7r44dJtkZuCndf0+Uy+nL7Z62/+H08nzehTR8AYI1EJVhs1ur8CP5eazDp m5tf+EMjrUolVKVctIzuxxfoeB9uAXul/3IqWe0fD8BJV+fLsUxa0RimExJC4GoZssgN gXp16ze/SG8mXy1B8QHBMCnSDPPizIQc6kymiNN6kxyWZnMTBjrg6wVD3QDEP+py2NsD aOfklV/ILMXiMN9k5G/MNz016wZe/zQYA9jqHU9UxawykxXewwh5hzbm9UgUmAUZI5Pm F7Kg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RUqh7wUlVB/hchJuP9kO52aonFFE8WfVXJq5dcWA5R8=; b=tif6F794gr4aP1P1rLTHkDVN+EhCuN/H1m/K6oTBGr0f8qa6sUu9ezVq3Er2ozVqK/ jvLn80NjALQdwm5BvmWrVN6gVEfNcgJ8dbDpioylplRY/izkFD8dNf4/zts3eiEFsMqa FIczApai71S40HalPMpieHtyUl3pWnspWZTZPExLPdAqZR7oeNuj0H6c1VJGCLoIR31T je6N5IFpK+JyId15WBVBYA5RBVVhfXMbB0lq3iyKjICNykgdHrslt92cistBnY4/duXw lGUsPk6UFDcTv3D422ej+9290SQPeXpTQRw3Eo2XuWg3I6lWoRDtg0ylSMl9wNEZquTL 6/0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2kohFNKIW5KmXKYHgvR1dY3jvOit+N3id7id4RKOdQG6/rzgTUkZ xtmFhP7J5OOHceGF3OcgwxBCmT7j1bLTZC909UYPswTZr9cY31oJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXsbC31L0SpY3oU+0s/dcx3t5Nh9SDGkjowjPriuKWO9frQnysF2L+CVH2L1w4eZxavGVZXGBdRaWqqDElJulrg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:19c8:b0:3da:f464:6618 with SMTP id u8-20020a05600c19c800b003daf4646618mr1181208wmq.196.1674162662982; Thu, 19 Jan 2023 13:11:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20230119161030.vt4muwcdvuwdqmj7@zoho.com> Received-SPF: none client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32c; envelope-from=bobnewell@bobnewell.net; helo=mail-wm1-x32c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:142441 Archived-At: > >Doug Engelbart invented mouse device for people to speed up with > >work. Using mouse is just fine. Certainly it is. But remember it is a matter of choice and user preference. I find having to reach for the mouse and remove hands from keyboard very disruptive. > Yes you are right. I am biased here. Keyboard-centric is not merit, it > is just a feature. Again, depending on the point of vue of the user. > >> - You can manipulate emails buffers just like normal text buffers. Well, actually you can in GNUS and probably other Emacs clients. Not to say Thunderbird isn't good. I actually think it's a very good client. It is just not what I prefer as I like to stay within Emacs. > >It is way too exaggerated and generalized statement. The "powerful > >way" in any software comes with experience. To learn what you think is > >powerful requires maybe decades. This is something I've stressed before. Serious tools for craftsmen require serious effort. No one starts out as a master craftsman. Everyone starts as a novice. Does that mean that the tools of the master are inferior because the novice is not yet skilled with them? Hardly. > But an average user won't use emacs as its text editor. An average user > writes proses use MS Word. And that's fine. To each his own. > >About writing in "Org mode", there is no special advantage for people > >who use e-mail unless those people are Emacs users. To draw somebody > >to be Emacs user into Org mode is getting person in trouble. I will again say something I've said before. Emacs is not for everyone, and I don't mean that in an elitist sense. For many of us it is an indispensible tool, which we've spent a long while learning how to use to best advantage. For others it may just be a big bother when simpler and easier tools may work just fine for their needs. I am not out there telling people "learn Emacs" without first knowing what their interests and inclinations may be. That indeed could be unproductive. I think people who can make use of Emacs find their way to it eventually. -- Bob Newell Honolulu, Hawai`i Via Linux/Emacs/Gnus/BBDB.