From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juanma Barranquero Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs: Problems of the Scratch Buffer Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:47:05 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1bqkr.13803$mL3.9455@newsfe23.iad> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1335030479 17759 80.91.229.3 (21 Apr 2012 17:47:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2012 17:47:59 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 21 19:47:59 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SLePe-0005T7-A5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 19:47:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41836 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLePd-0006gX-Jm for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:47:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:37856) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLePW-0006fl-2U for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:47:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLePT-0005cC-Q5 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:47:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pb0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]:44687) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SLePT-0005bt-Hs for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 13:47:47 -0400 Original-Received: by pbcup15 with SMTP id up15so2334950pbc.0 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DmqUzPlU6U0TXC0BXVLPgtInpwvTNM+kzPCTVwGSQVk=; b=ZUqazwijTVGIVolVBs/nGgsqRCUt9O4wbuffLrbueQA2EFJMioYaQ67dgpvrnuLK56 iOTdjKSzQpnhBK6LFUtVlNVTT8t6I1DUis7f9iZJrahP9yV8QrtCjrAkfcjsbOTMeIhR TAGTQLf/jS+3xJCuUrnlrsOtiYQVTE7usG9i1kqbOGAyAkJshEgyHEPdoNU3PxYafxE3 08SljLwhYTQOV8Q+d5AKIVwkFWQwX7rYdz+u2FCOA/xDvuqKqyn+h8q1fXeIzZLiEnch Ck92FcwUt8z54OLv9D23hkv82wJDssaPBLl9bkzQZ9qF2Y+flrRV4P7A/wvFEN4Xopl1 2qmQ== Original-Received: by 10.68.194.227 with SMTP id hz3mr22795722pbc.23.1335030465616; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.143.83.9 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Apr 2012 10:47:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.160.41 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:84583 Archived-At: On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 19:14, Chiron wrote: > So, without meaning to be rude, I feel > it is time for me to withdraw from this conversation. =C2=A0I don't seem = to be > able to say things clearly enough. Let's try to understand, leaving aside any hard feeling. You said: > I think I can confidently say that the maintainers are not going to be > badgered into modifying this tool just to please the crowds. I think > that the idea of getting lots of maintainers isn't a priority for them. Don't know why you said "confidently", but if you read emacs-devel, you'll see that the issue of changing settings or adding stuff to make it easier for newbies has been discussed many times. And the answer usually is not a knee-jerk "no", but of course it is not an unconditional "yes" either. Depends on the issue, how far reaching it is and how does it impact Emacs in general. Defaults for shift selection, for example, have been changed in the past to cater to current sensibilities. As for getting more maintainers, it's not a "priority", but neither is it irrelevant. The (relative) shortage of maintainers has often been quoted as one of the causes of the Emacs project not branching for a release until it is near to releasing (to avoid diverting efforts between "boring pre-release bug-fixing" and "fun new features in the trunk"). > The current maintainers have absolutely no incentive to try to make emacs > appealing to the masses. If they did that, sure, they'd probably get > plenty of new maintainers, but these new guys would change their tool in > ways they don't want. They're OK with the way it is right now. What's > in it for them to change it? There are 150 people with commit rights to Emacs, and perhaps two dozen who work on it with some regularity. It's hard to attribute common desires and incentives to all of them. Some people are really interested in making it appealing to the masses, some are uninterested (though no one is hostile, I think). But I've never seen any resistance to getting new developers, nor fear that they would change Emacs. There have been plenty of changes in the last few years, some trivial, others pretty disruptive (multi-tty and Unicode support were hard). AFAICS, the Emacs project does not resist change; if anything, it shows resistance against disruptive changes without a good reason. But everything is open to discussion (too many times, often ;-) Just my .02=E2=82=AC =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Juanma