From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 09:52:09 +0900 Message-ID: References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <86h892nk2g.fsf@zoho.eu> <9379C01B-80E3-49DD-B830-46CED773DC2C@traduction-libre.org> <83lfydrkde.fsf@gnu.org> <874l51q0s4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83ef45rdij.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhmto6fa.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190607163017.GA32029@tuxteam.de> <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> <87h890ns41.fsf@telefonica.net> <83pnnonr15.fsf@gnu.org> <83muisnkw5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="216182"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: Help Gnu Emacs mailing list Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 09 02:52:45 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZm4j-000u2H-HB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Jun 2019 02:52:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33146 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZm4b-0004J4-QC for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 20:52:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44453) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZm4N-0004It-Is for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 20:52:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZm4L-0003qs-JV for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 20:52:23 -0400 Original-Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.194]:39641) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZm4K-0003nQ-GD for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 20:52:20 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 111.89.228.40 Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pl32040.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp [111.89.228.40]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay2-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7785540006 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 00:52:11 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83muisnkw5.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.194 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120859 Archived-At: > On Jun 9, 2019, at 0:42, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Jean-Christophe Helary = >> Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 22:54:17 +0900 >>=20 >>> We have an enormously complex piece of software on >>> our hands, and we have no better choice than going the = "inconvenient" >>> ways when we want to rebind an unusual key. >>=20 >> In all honesty: >>=20 >> (define-key input-decode-map "\C-[" [C-left-bracket]) >> (define-key global-map [C-left-bracket] 'myfunction) >>=20 >> is not inconvenient at all. What is inconvenient is the discovery = process. >=20 > AFAIU, that discovery process, and the fact that you need 2 lines of > code rather than just one, was what was referred to as "inconvenient". Ok, plenty of misunderstandings in this thread. Thank you for the = clarification. >> Knowing what I know about emacs (which is above the casual user) and = even with the willingness to go through the manual, it would have been = (it *has* been) impossible for me to find that solution. >=20 > FWIW, I consider this not to be a catastrophe, far from it. Emacs is > an enormously complex package, so it's impractical to require that > everything in it is immediately discoverable and easily customizable. > Especially when what you want to do is something as unusual as the > case in point. I still hear every day one or two things I didn't know > about Emacs, after all those years of using, customizing, and hacking > it. We could (and do) add stuff to the manuals and the doc strings, > but there's limit to how this could improve discoverability. We > shouldn't expect, let alone demand, unreachable goals. Well, I ended up with a solution so I'm not calling anything discussed = here a catastrophe. But as far as "as unusual as the case in point", I have my left fourth = finger close to Ctrl, and my right fourth finger close to [ and ], so = what better combination could I think of when I need something that goes = to the left and then to the right ? That might not occur to you because = of your background, but for me, that binding was just urging me to be = done... >> Now, what I'd love to know is what are the other "unusual" keys, = because as a group, they deserve a few more lines in the manual. >=20 > I suggest a careful reading of keymap.c and keyboard.c, the answer to > this question is there. Thank you ! Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune