Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[jidanni]

>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
r> Hi all:

r> I'm a "normal" GUI computer user, I've used things like Delphi,
r> Eclipse, gedit, Notepad++ and Visual Studio all my life. I've also
r> been using emacs for some time under Ubuntu and under Windows. It
r> took me a while to set it up with "standard" behaviour, like
r> shift+arrows for text selection and so on, I found the cua mode to be
r> helpful. Every now and then, I even click on the menus with the
r> mouse. However, I've written some simple, copy-paste lisp too, so I'm
r> not just a standard mouse user. In fact, my .emacs file has grown
r> much more than I ever thought it would. 8-)


r> Now I have to work on a remote server via SSH, and the connection is
r> not fast enough to tunnel X Windows over it, so I have to switch to
r> console mode with "emacs -nw".

r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.

Same for me, but that's life here on Debian, even on ones very own
laptop, no SSH involved, and even if you are root,
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652

Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[jidanni]

>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
Or not as root.
Not even
when
administering their system?

Bug#633652: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Kenyon Ralph]

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On 2011-08-23T08:35:58+0800, jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:
> >>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
> r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
> r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
> r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
> But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
> Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
> Or not as root.
> Not even
> when
> administering their system?

I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
anyway).

Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu

-- 
Kenyon Ralph

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Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[jidanni]

>>>>> "KR" == Kenyon Ralph <kenyon@kenyonralph.com> writes:
KR> I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
KR> root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
KR> the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
KR> session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
KR> anyway).
I'm a safe sex fan myself, however there are limits to how much I am
willing to sacrifice that raw feel.

KR> Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
KR> sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
KR> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu

Mmmm, sounds kinky, but at my age I don't think we can teach this old
dog new tricks. But I suppose that's what the younger generation will
use and just mark this bug wontfix. Alas, no family values.

Bug#633652: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Bill MacAllister]

--On Tuesday, August 23, 2011 08:35:58 AM +0800 jidanni@jidanni.org wrote:

>>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
> r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
> r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
> r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
> But that's the way it must be here on Debian, if you are root.
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652
> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers cope?
> Don't tell me they don't use emacs.
> Or not as root.
> Not even
> when
> administering their system?

If you are truly using the console then it is likely that some of the
issues have nothing to do with emacs and everything to do with the
console terminal emulation.  At a base level emacs is depending on
escape sequences to move the cursor around, but I expect it is doing
a lot fancier things that only a good terminal emulator will keep up
with.  And I would add that I don't really want anyone working on
improving console terminal emulation---there are too many other things
to do that need to be done and no one spends much time on the console
these days.

As a side note I really hate modal editors like vi and its decendents,
but I know enough of it to be able to work on consoles when emacs is
not installed yet or the terminal emulation is not up to it.  It is
just part of managing the system in my view.

Finally, when I am editing text I find that a mouse slows everything
down.  I do just fine with character cell xterms and no mouse.  I do
think it is worth getting color to work when possible.  The syntax
highlighting helps me spot stupid errors early.

Bill

-- 

Bill MacAllister
Infrastructure Delivery Group, Stanford University

Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Toby Speight]

>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
r> The console mode has been a shock.  There is no mouse at all.  I
r> cannot navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and
r> unfriendly.  But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work
r> well.


0> In article <87ty99otg1.fsf@jidanni.org>,
0> jidanni <URL:mailto:jidanni@jidanni.org> ("Jidanni") wrote:

Jidanni> My question is how do all those high powered Debian Developers
Jidanni> cope?  Don't tell me they don't use emacs.  Or not as root.
Jidanni> Not even when administering their system?


I certainly avoid running programs as large and extensible as emacs when
I'm root!  And, generally, all X11 programs fall into that category.

As previously mentioned, Tramp is the ultimate saviour for editing files
as many users on many systems.

If you feel you must run as root, and you want to use a mouse with emacs
in XTerm, then xterm-mouse-mode may help:

/--------
| xterm-mouse-mode is an interactive autoloaded Lisp function in `xt-mouse'.
| (xterm-mouse-mode &optional arg)
| 
| Toggle XTerm mouse mode.
| With prefix arg, turn XTerm mouse mode on if arg is positive, otherwise
| turn it off.
| 
| Turn it on to use Emacs mouse commands, and off to use xterm mouse
| commands.  This works in terminal emulators compatible with xterm.  It
| only works for simple uses of the mouse.  Basically, only non-modified
| single clicks are supported.  When turned on, the normal xterm mouse
| functionality for such clicks is still available by holding down the
| SHIFT key while pressing the mouse button.
\--------

Bug#633652: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Bastien ROUCARIES]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 3:14 AM,  <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote:
>>>>>> "KR" == Kenyon Ralph <kenyon@kenyonralph.com> writes:
> KR> I use emacs under X to administer my Debian systems. I don't run it as
> KR> root though. I use emacs TRAMP to use sudo to edit files as root on
> KR> the local machine. On remote machines I do the same but in an ssh
> KR> session in xterm (I don't use mouse or menu bars in emacs in X
> KR> anyway).
> I'm a safe sex fan myself, however there are limits to how much I am
> willing to sacrifice that raw feel.
>
> KR> Looking at bug 633652, have you tried running X programs as root with
> KR> sux or gksu instead of su? http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/sux
> KR> http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/gksu
>
> Mmmm, sounds kinky, but at my age I don't think we can teach this old
> dog new tricks. But I suppose that's what the younger generation will
> use and just mark this bug wontfix. Alas, no family values.

Yes sux work with both emacs and firefox

And for middle ages dog (not oldtimer) they are the ssh -X root@localhost trick

Bastien

Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Cyril Brulebois]

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Bastien ROUCARIES <roucaries.bastien@gmail.com> (23/08/2011):
> And for middle ages dog (not oldtimer) they are the ssh -X root@localhost trick

or: sudo XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority wireshark

Mraw,
KiBi.

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Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[jidanni]

I am now officially pleased with sux, enabling me to use X programs as
root despite http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652 .
Thanks everybody. Have a song,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLtzQXTHiqk&list=PL38C412C876528CCB

Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[PJ Weisberg]

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On Tuesday, August 23, 2011, Toby Speight <T.M.Speight.90@cantab.net> wrote:

> If you feel you must run as root, and you want to use a mouse with emacs
> in XTerm, then xterm-mouse-mode may help:

If you feel you must run Emacs as root, you probably want "sudoedit"
instead.

-- 

-PJ

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Re: emacs on a text console - please help me overcome the shock

[Ben Pfaff]

jidanni@jidanni.org writes:

>>>>>> "r" == rdiezmail-emacs  <rdiezmail-emacs@yahoo.de> writes:
> r> Now I have to work on a remote server via SSH, and the connection is
> r> not fast enough to tunnel X Windows over it, so I have to switch to
> r> console mode with "emacs -nw".
>
> r> The console mode has been a shock. There is no mouse at all. I cannot
> r> navigate the menus as usual, menu-bar-open is weird and unfriendly.
> r> But, worst of all, some key combinations do not work well.
>
> Same for me, but that's life here on Debian, even on ones very own
> laptop, no SSH involved, and even if you are root,
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633652

The mouse should work in Emacs over SSH from an xterm.  Try
(xterm-mouse-mode 1).  It works for me.

There's also a mode to make the mouse work from a Linux console,
if gpm is running.  I haven't used it in a long time.  Look
around for t-mouse.el.
-- 
Ben Pfaff 
http://benpfaff.org