From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: Poll about proposed change in DEL (aka Backspace) and Delete Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 09:36:22 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87litcvtu2.fsf@stupidchicken.com><87fwj95689.wl%lists@groll.co.za><71CFF75123EE4102BED12F8A422EF6B9@us.oracle.com> <87botwafzm.fsf@foolinux.dyndns.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1317746219 20591 80.91.229.12 (4 Oct 2011 16:36:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:36:59 +0000 (UTC) To: "'Ian Zimmerman'" , Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 04 18:36:53 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RB7z9-0003tC-4D for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 18:36:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35969 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB7z8-0001yH-IY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:36:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:41102) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB7z1-0001v6-Qd for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:36:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB7yw-0005OB-RP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:36:43 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:42141) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RB7yw-0005Lw-Je for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:36:38 -0400 Original-Received: from rtcsinet21.oracle.com (rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p94GaTtA014513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:36:31 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p94GaSjw003872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:36:28 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p94GaMbv030631; Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:36:22 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.58.205) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:36:22 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-reply-to: <87botwafzm.fsf@foolinux.dyndns.org> Thread-Index: AcyCsSd5OiYoWzgrTUK7KTUV9xspnQAASDRQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet21.oracle.com [66.248.204.29] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4E8B360F.0103,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 148.87.113.117 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:82454 Archived-At: > Drew> interactions between Emacs selection/region and standard paste > Drew> buffers/clipboards/selections were changed, with no > Drew> poll - and it is not obvious to a user how to customize Emacs > Drew> to get back the old behavior.] > > This is one of my few longtime gripes with Emacs, so I would be _very_ > interested in the details of the change. Are they written up > anywhere? If not, could you summarize them here? No, I'm afraid I cannot summarize them. I tried to follow the descriptions and explanations as they came in (largely in response to my questions like yours), but at the end of the day I can't tell you succinctly just what went down. For one thing, I'm no expert about X-Window selection etc. You can do `M-x view-emacs-news' in an Emacs 24 build, and then search for "selection". This is what you will find. I think it does help, but it might not leave things crystal clear for at least some users. ;-) ,---- | ** Selection changes. | | The default handling of clipboard and primary selections was changed | to conform with modern X applications. In short, most commands for | killing and yanking text now use the clipboard, while mouse commands | use the primary selection. | | In the following, we provide a list of these changes, followed by a | list of steps to get the old behavior back if you prefer that. | | +++ | *** `select-active-regions' now defaults to t. | Merely selecting text (e.g. with drag-mouse-1) no longer puts it in | the kill ring. The selected text is put in the primary selection, if | the system possesses a separate primary selection facility (e.g. X). | | +++ | **** `select-active-regions' also accepts a new value, `only'. | This means to only set the primary selection for temporarily active | regions (usually made by mouse-dragging or shift-selection); | "ordinary" active regions, such as those made with C-SPC followed by | point motion, do not alter the primary selection. | | --- | **** `mouse-drag-copy-region' now defaults to nil. | | +++ | *** mouse-2 is now bound to `mouse-yank-primary'. | This pastes from the primary selection, ignoring the kill-ring. | Previously, mouse-2 was bound to `mouse-yank-at-click'. | | +++ | *** `x-select-enable-clipboard' now defaults to t on all platforms. | +++ | *** `x-select-enable-primary' now defaults to nil. | Thus, commands that kill text or copy it to the kill-ring (such as | M-w, C-w, and C-k) also use the clipboard---not the primary selection. | | --- | **** The "Copy", "Cut", and "Paste" items in the "Edit" menu are now | exactly equivalent to, respectively M-w, C-w, and C-y. | | --- | **** Note that on MS-Windows, `x-select-enable-clipboard' was already | non-nil by default, as Windows does not support the primary selection | between applications. | | --- | *** To return to the previous behavior, do the following: | **** Change `select-active-regions' to nil. | **** Change `mouse-drag-copy-region' to t. | **** Change `x-select-enable-primary' to t (on X only). | **** Change `x-select-enable-clipboard' to nil. | **** Bind `mouse-yank-at-click' to mouse-2. | | +++ | *** Support for X cut buffers has been removed. | | *** X clipboard managers are now supported. | To inhibit this, change `x-select-enable-clipboard-manager' to nil. | `---- > Drew> Transient mark mode is already turned on now in Emacs, > Drew> by default. The proposed change does not implement or > Drew> replace delete-selection mode. What it does is make DEL > Drew> delete the active region. The second proposed change > Drew> lets characters you type replace the active region. > > Let us settle this once and for ever: would the proposal currently > under consideration change _anything_ for users who set > transient-mark-mode to nil ? I don't know. My guess is no. Perhaps Richard can explain just what is meant in this regard, for the two proposals that the poll is about. [FWIW, I think things would have been clearer if the second proposal (about type-to-replace) had *not* been included in the (same) poll. For one thing, the first poll proposal is already part of Emacs 24, and the second one is not - and it will not be part of Emacs 24.1.]