From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Fren Zeee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: TROLL is a HATE terminology Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:10:51 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87wrncr2vp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1292353880 14688 80.91.229.12 (14 Dec 2010 19:11:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:11:20 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 14 20:11:15 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PSaHJ-00017Q-9c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:11:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37147 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PSaHI-0001ty-KT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:11:12 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42309 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PSaH7-0001qu-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:11:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PSaGz-0001eL-6M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:11:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-iw0-f169.google.com ([209.85.214.169]:54774) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PSaGy-0001dm-Tj; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:10:53 -0500 Original-Received: by iwn40 with SMTP id 40so1215041iwn.0 for ; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:10:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=2/lG8Vi9BQk1uq8d+sOGr2EpN9FVzO4th4PxSxN8meg=; b=XqSEdMWlI0oGJmgVTE37jhfcX+OsgiXdUXO9MDDpWF0yVLM2xvKsqaSPU6qv8gxu7A W4QM+Zd/BHGFED8fRMmByOJfkFR8fBPgiD+reDtJ3qn6rzmJiVAKe/lnaXlJek+6gvKb cvf2rKWDJXHpz8ydk+0Z91z0T8kjEcx9T0kto= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=nEq1HRRpkJ5yZitJj2PuWaS+QRSGZRnc/3sQkStbltfbrFqF/YjNS1JNI52VCsI7yc DpzXj6qxWCJ5VPWcvIE56tpmgFjXUT+puSQxwjyi2Pso7iIMDqGJkF1qUZqFYcI85IXO YCwHKWl66i+bZ3umBcZBZmJqEZzWda2fV5UCg= Original-Received: by 10.231.17.77 with SMTP id r13mr2545188iba.38.1292353852027; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:10:52 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.231.11.137 with HTTP; Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:10:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:133697 gmane.emacs.help:77509 Archived-At: When the person tries to revert the thread back, they call him or her a tro= ll. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Fren Zeee wrote: > It is well known that there are various subversive organizations and > agencies whose full time paid agents are on the internet and they are > quite malicious as a result of their organizational structuring if not > by personal intent. > > They are operating to stop the normal human exchange, say trade and > sharing of knowledge. > > The way they operate is by diverting discussion on thread into flames and= so on. > > Why the person tries to revert the thread back, they call him or her a tr= oll. > > They invented the terminology of troll. > > Now this behavior has been propagated into the general public and for > a professor to use it made me pause and reflect on the whole matter > ... > > ... and advance my thesis. > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Fren Zeee wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: >>> The emacs-devel and help-gnu-emacs lists have my deepest apologies. =A0= I >>> did not expect my private message, offering sincere advice, to receive >>> such an obnoxious reply on any public list, let alone one I don't >>> participate in. >>> >>> Sincerely yours, >>> >>> >> >> Stephen, If you inspect my first reply to your email, which I realized >> a little later was private, it was an error, and I wanted to add to >> the help mailing lists, but then decided to send it anyways, >> >> It is not personally against you at all. >> >> It is mainly against the terminology of "troll" ... evidence being >> that I forked off a thread under a different title. >> >> It is well known that there are various subversive organizations and >> agencies whose full time paid agents are on the internet and they are >> quite malicious as a result of their organizational structuring if not >> by personal intent. >> >> They are operating to stop the normal human exchange, say trade and >> sharing of knowledge. >> >> It is a fact that I had _high regard_ for you, and hope to have so in >> the future. >> >> Thats why your post (later i realized ... a private email) made me >> think and it was a eureka moment to realize what troll stood for and I >> expressed it clearly. Other authors above have said that they could >> not understand this vague term whose true meaning is only known by its >> context of usage. I thank them for their contribution and testimonial. >> >> Because it has no dictionary meaning, it continued to be used >> effectively by dark forces to denigrade people. My post should help >> label it as what it really is. >> >> You probably unconsciously picked it up ... where I gave the benefit of = doubt. >> >> I dont think my post paints you in any poor light ... just that >> members of human extended family can sometimes have a little >> miscommunication. >> >> However, I extend my apologies also to anyone who might have been hurt >> by any strong word of mine. >> >> Now, as far as "helpful" suggestion is concerned, here is an example >> of rather business-like but a helpful post =A0... the criteria being >> advancing the original topic of that thread. I am sure many others >> would benefit by the answer. In person, in all my academic classes, I >> know that many people have thanked me for asking questions on their >> behalf ... and won respect of most of my professors. Now, as we get >> older, our capacity to learn new subjects can deteriorate a little. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D >> Chad Brown >> =A0to me, Emacs >> >> show details Dec 7 (7 days ago) >> >> On Dec 7, 2010, at 1:24 PM, Fren Zeee wrote: >> >>> The question is VERY CLEAR !!! and SPECIFIC at the LAST STAGE !!! >> >> Even with the CAPITAL LETTERS and the TRIPLE EXCLAMATION >> POINTS!!!, I still have no idea what you're trying to accomplish. >> >> Perhaps you would be helped by evaluating both of these in emacs: >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 (pp (list 1 2)) >> =A0 =A0 =A0 (pp (cons 1 2)) >> >> or perhaps: >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 (pp (list (list 1 2) (list 3 4))) >> =A0 =A0 =A0 (pp (list (cons 1 2) (cons 3 4) (cons 5 6))) >> >> I say `perhaps', because I don't really know what you're trying to >> accomplish. >> >> I hope that helps, >> *Chad >> >